Why 2A Rights are now a Partisan Issue...

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Elitism is a good point. There is a reasonable view that being Democrat or Republican doesn't matter as the elites of both parties are in cahoots to keep their entire class in control for their economic benefit.

Elites really don't like that power sources can be distributed to the non-elite slice of society. That's why you see so-called conservatives being opposed to firearms that have the most utility in the defense against tyranny (EBRs, higher cap weapons).

Some theorists think that major social disruption won't be based on conservative vs. liberal (to use this stupid but current short hand terms) but economic elite vs. the mid and lower SES if member of those sections realize they are being used. However, the elites keep the members of those classes divided on social issues. A bit of divide and rule. Race, religion, sexuality, gun control, other similar social topics keep the peasants fighting among themselves and away from storming the gated communities.

The state is recognized as the monopoly user of force in most societies. The USA is variant as it enshrined the use of force against the state as a possibility in the 2nd Amend. Elite classes will fight against that.

That's a risk in SCOTUS decisions or discussions that focus on self-defense and common usage and reasonable restrictions. It's a risk in the 5 is enough crowd that denigrates those who want to have or carry more (I understand the convenience and risk analysis arguments) but folks who call the carry more folks as nutty commandos play into the hands of the limit the arms of the peasantry folks of the elites.

A rich Romney or Rich Diane calling an AR a weapon only for the military and not you nuts - they are protecting the elites. Don't fear the NRA, says the Donald - wonder why, rich boy?

 

[heyjoe]

Mike38


The post you are replying to is not singling out one person, or a small group, it's looking at the "Big Picture". Sure, people that are registered Democrats own guns. But when you look at the big picture, as a percentage of gun owners, you'll see what he means. A majority of Republicans (55%) say they have a gun in their home, compared with 32% of Democrats. See Gallup poll:

im very skeptical of polls about gun ownership. I know i wouldnt answer a question about whether or not i own a gun to anyone, never mind someone who calls me up from a polling organization.

 

[44 AMP]

A bit of divide and rule. Race, religion, sexuality, gun control, other similar social topics keep the peasants fighting among themselves and away from storming the gated communities.

Don't forget the Bread and Circuses!
(which, I think these days is foodstamps and TV ...)

Or tv and sports or dope or celebrity watching, or what ever else they can distract the great unwashed with...

im very skeptical of polls about gun ownership. I know i wouldnt answer a question about whether or not i own a gun to anyone, never mind someone who calls me up from a polling organization.

I'm skeptical of all private polls, and I'm had occasional doubts about the official ones...

Had a friend, back in the Clinton years, and old farmer, he was slightly less political than a rock. Somehow, he got on a poll list. They called, asked him what he thought of the President, the job he was doing, etc. Since he didn't care, he told them he thought the Pres was ok...

THey called him every 2-3 months, for a couple years...he always told them the same thing. Then, one time, just to be a curmudgeon, he told them he didn't like the Pres, or the job he was doing.

They NEVER called him again....

As to a survey over the phone, from someone I don't know, and can't verify who they are (and especially if my caller ID says "not provided", no, I'm NOT going to tell them the truth. Ever.

I get a number of calls from people who say they are some kind of "Home Security" company, they want to give me a free installation of their system….ask what I've got for home security now....right.....like I'm going to tell a complete stranger the truth about my setup, but I sometimes do, tell them I have 400lbs of very hungry rotweillers, a moat filled with diseased alligators (if they even scratch you, you get gatoraids!) claymores , automatic flamethrowers, a voodoo curse and a gypsy hex, and that's just in the front yard....

 

[Glenn E. Meyer]

When I was young I had a job making cold phone calls to ask about music preferences for radio stations. We were given demographics wanted liked 20-25 year old male elephant handlers. If you got them to do the survey, you received a couple of books over minimum wage.

Everyone cheated and hoped there was a call back to check on you. One guy was getting a tremendous amount of successful surveys. We knew he was cheating but the Boss said he was a great work until the auditors busted both of them.

Point being that if callers have to get paid by the piece, you can never trust the data they collect.

This was so long ago that we got names from old obsolete White Pages that they ripped up and gave to us.

 

[Mike38]

I agree polls can be skewed, no doubt about it. But I'd like to believe that Gallup is one of the better polling agencies, maybe? Anyhow, it doesn't take a poll, a neurosurgeon, or a NASA scientist to know that by percentages, more Republicans own guns than Democrats do. Likewise, as a whole, looking at the big picture, Republicans lean pro-gun, Democrats lean anti-gun.

 

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Agreed. However, if 32% of Democrats are gun owners, it is a mistake to adopt insulting rhetoric to all Democrats as some folks and organization leaders are prone to do.

That's why we like pro and anti gunner as descriptive in our discussions here. Folks have to make hard political choices and swallow the crap from the extremists of both parties in order to protect some issue that rises to the top of their priority list.

 

[turkeestalker]

That is the distinction after all, very well said.

Just something to think about...
What kind of a mix do we believe that there is among Americans, relating to who claims which major political party?
If one party has 55% of it's members that own firearms, and the other has 32% of it's member that do, how many Americans own firearms?
Why are people so quick to believe that gun owners are in a minority when the opposition tries to convince us that we are?

 

[Brian Pfleuger]

However, the elites keep the members of those classes divided on social issues. A bit of divide and rule. Race, religion, sexuality, gun control, other similar social topics keep the peasants fighting among themselves and away from storming the gated communities.

The very definition of "Keep them asking the wrong questions and you'll never have to worry about the answers."

What kind of a mix do we believe that there is among Americans, relating to who claims which major political party?

At the risk of being overly simplistic, it seems that more and more folks fall in to one of two categories. Either, they realize that they "mostly" agree with one party or the other and so vote that party simply because it's easy, they're lazy, they don't really care to do deeper... or they have no party affiliation and often no political interest at all and don't participate (including voting) beyond meaningless banter and spreading uninformed opinion.

Fact is, nuanced stands are incredibly difficult to translate into voting choices in the current 2 party, basically choiceless system.

If I'm pro-gun and pro-choice... which party engenders my loyalty? Or anti-gun and pro-life? Hard line elements controlling the parties leave us little with which to identify on either side and our "digital", zero or one, singular input voting system essentially ensures that it stays that way.

 

[ROCK6]

At the risk of being overly simplistic, it seems that more and more folks fall in to one of two categories. Either, they realize that they "mostly" agree with one party or the other and so vote that party simply because it's easy, they're lazy, they don't really care to do deeper... or they have no party affiliation and often no political interest at all and don't participate (including voting) beyond meaningless banter and spreading uninformed opinion.

Politics in general, turn a lot of people off, which his unfortunate, but also a political strategy by both parties to reduce opposition voting. I also have the opinion that media bias and influence along with the "swamp" like to keep voting to single, polarized issues...it sure makes their job easier! I fully agree though that "adults" able to legally vote are typically uninformed, apathetic, often more passionate about social issues rather than Constitutional liberties, and are in general, not very well informed about the actual platform issues. Of course we get a complicit media and bureaucrats who love feeding those masses...

Fact is, nuanced stands are incredibly difficult to translate into voting choices in the current 2 party, basically choiceless system.

If I'm pro-gun and pro-choice... which party engenders my loyalty? Or anti-gun and pro-life? Hard line elements controlling the parties leave us little with which to identify on either side and our "digital", zero or one, singular input voting system essentially ensures that it stays that way.

Fear-mongering; it works like a charm. While we have politicians and lobbying groups stating they want to ban all firearms...a Constitutional Amendment, the whole Roe V. Wade hasn't really been brought up by many on the Right. Now, rhetoric is a media/politician weapon and those on the Left say the opposition-nominee will take away your "right to choose", starve your kids, institute slavery, or whatever baseless argument to drum up support and money. The Right isn't much better, but they are far more accurate when they say the Left wants to "take away your guns"...many on the Left have come out and publicly stated that.

I go back to the one-issue of importance when I vote. Most of your little social liberties are protected by the Constitution...specifically the 1A and 2A. The biggest threat are not the people on the Left or Right, it's those in political power, whether they are Left or Right, or the spineless Independents (spineless only because they have no core platform to stand up for or against). My last comment is why only radicals and single-platform individuals participate in elections...it's simply easier.

Guns and just about all other issues are partisan and highly charged. Only education and truly revealing the facts in a logical manner will combat that froth-mouthed protestor who likely can't even spell "Constitution", and is likely getting paid less than minimum wage to carry divisive posters and spew hate-filled rhetoric towards the opposition...of which they likely don't even care who they oppose, it's just the "in-thing" to do and get some publicity. Yeah, guns will be a partisan topic for some time to come.

ROCK6

 

[turkeestalker]

Guns will be a partisan issue for, well... basically forever.
My point is that as gun owners, we need to stop buying into crap that we're fed by those that oppose us.
When you look at the two major political parties, and then stop to consider independents, and where that group typically stands.
Gun owners and supporters of the 2nd amendment are not in a minority in our country, not by a long shot.

 

[USAFNoDak]

There is also a strong position among minorities in the big cities for gun control and gun bans. That likely has a lot to do with high levels of violent crime and the impact it has on many of the people living there. While there are some within minority groups who appreciate the freedom of the RKBA which the 2nd Amendment protects, I believe that's a minority of people within the minority groups from the large urban areas.