Why .22LR Isn't a Good Defensive Load

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Tamara

Moderator Emeritus
-If that was a .45 cal rebar...
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Every psychology textbook on the planet relates the tale of the (English? Welsh?) miner who took a drill rod through the head and lived out the rest of his days. It was much bigger around than .45". Luck of the draw...

I seem to recall an elderly, arthritic woman in Miami who shot her (much younger) abusive boyfriend three times COM and killed him deader than a hammer after he'd kicked down her front door and attacked her. The caliber? .22LR. The Weapon? A Roehm RG-14. (The local DA charged her with murder, of course. The DA? Janet Reno.)

And .25ACP? I believe that, just here recently, a certain Florida teacher's last words were: "Why, Nathaniel Brazil, that's just a .25! I read on TFL that you couldn't hurt a fly with those!". BANG! End of story.


If you are relying on a super caliber, master-blaster pistol or wonder bullet to do all your work for you, you are putting your faith in a place that'll get you killed.

Shot placement, shot placement, shot placement.
 
Q

Quartus

New member
Head shots are discouraged by some knowlegeable firearms instructors because there is too much stuff there to stop a bullet. Sinus cavities, etc. The brain itself is not an instant kill zone - it depends on where you hit. The only sure kill in the head is the brain stem, located at the top of the spinal column.

Take out the frontal lobes, for example, where the powers of logic and reason reside, and all you've done is to produce a liberal. :D
 
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James K

Member In Memoriam
I doubt anyone here would use a .22 as a defense gun by choice. But many people have been killed very dead very quickly by the little .22, and a .22 is preferable to no weapon at all. It is worth noting that with a head shot, the brain may be penetrated not only by the bullet, but by bone fragments, which can be just as deadly. In fact, at very short or contact range, a head shot with a blank will kill instantly, a bullet is not needed.

Jim
 
T

Tamara

Moderator Emeritus
The 22LR is definitely LETHAL, but not a quick STOPPER.
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For the most part, that is very true.

But I would rather my arthritic grandfather or a poor college coed had a Ruger MkII or Taurus 94 stuffed with Stingers than nothing at all.

The case of the little old lady with the RG above, she dropped the attacker in his tracks at five to seven yards. The murder charge was based on the fact that after the first shots popped him (including one right through his heart) he turned and the third one entered his side just past the midpoint. Reno's office based their prosecution on that third shot, saying she'd "shot him in the back", when all witnesses agreed that the three shots came in rapid succession with no pause between #2 and #3.
 
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Mike Irwin

Staff
So how did Grandma's murder case turn out?

As for the .45, there have been recorded instances when a .45 bullet at close range has ricocheted off a human skull.

The skull, for obvious reasons, is EXTREMELY tough.
 
C

CWL

New member
Agreed. Something's better than nothing, but I still remember at least two cases where people were shot in the head with .22LRs while they were sleeping by their spouses, in which they didn't even realize until years later when it was noticed by doctors performing routine exams.

If anyone recalls these stories, I'd like the references again.
 
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Mike Irwin

Staff
When I was starting out, I had a stint as a newpaper reporter in a small town near State College, Pennsylvania.

Got to see the after-effects of a woman who used a .30-06 on her husband as he was sleeping.

His head didn't deflect that one.

Amazingly enough, this was such a podunk burg than when it became evident that the trial wasn't going well, and the jury had come back to ask the difference between murder and manslaughter, they saw no reason to detain her.

She also saw no reason to stick around. During the lunch recess she told her attorney that she was "going for a walk to think."

More like she went for a 2,500 mile drive. :D

They finally caught her in Texas after she had been featured on America's Most Wanted.
 
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Hard Ball

New member
I posted this before on another thread, but it is applicable to this discussion so:

We are often told that small caliber pistols are totally ineffective, however:
During World War Two the British Special Operation Executive (the SOE) conducted an extensive series of tests of all currently (1942) available handguns to decide what they should arm their agents sent on missions to the occupied countries to kill key German officials and collaborators.
The SOE concluded that a .22 Long Rifle automatic piatol was the best weapon. Their firing technique was to fire 10 rounds into the intended victims upper chest cavity. Agents who did this in the field reported that their victims almost always died very rapidly and were seldom able to cry out or shoot back.

I have a .22LR Walther PPK/S that holds 11 rounds. If I have to defend my self I would rather have a larger caliber, but if this is the only gun I have it will do the job.:cool:
 
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Ledbetter

New member
My favorite .22 LR . . .

After comparing penetration and expansion in paperback books is the CCI Mini Mag solid point.

Regards.
 
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Jack19

New member
Granted the .22 isn't my first choice on what to bring to a gunfight.....but the Israelis are using it to good effect.
 
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tyro

New member
quote:
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I doubt anyone here would use a .22 as a defense gun by choice.


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You'd be very surprised.
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And wrong.
 
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Steel

New member
Originally Posted by captain Hoek:

"Take out the frontal lobes, for example, where the powers of logic and reason reside, and all you've done is to produce a liberal. "


Too funny!
 
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LoneStranger

New member
For all of you that think that big calibers are always the way to go. There was a story a number of years back about a Polish criminal who started having some really bad headaches. He went to the hospital and the Dr.'s took an X-ray of his head. They found a 9mm round lodged in his brain. Claimed that he had no idea how it got there.
When it was finally sorted out it seems one of his compatriots put the pistol to his head, while he was sleeping on the backseat of a car, pulled the trigger and got really shook when the guy woke up and asked what the noise was.
Yes, it is all a crap shoot when you use a firearm. It is just that like in craps there are better bets than others. :)
 
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Jody Hudson

New member
My preferance for many reasons is the .22 when I'm in the woods and I've changed from Stingers to Quik-Shok. My Tiny Walther TPH .22 is a nice, handy, accurate pistol and always goes into the woods with me.

When I have a big pocket or a small shoulder bag and feel like the extra weight... My Glock 19 is also taken with Quik-Shoks loaded in the Hi Cap magazine.

In Florida I prefer to carry a .30 carbine Enforcer with two 25 round mags of HV HPs and a Mossberg 500 with a bandolier of selected loads.

And when I was staring down a line of mad, wild Brahma bulls about 30 miles from the nearest road down in the Florida Swamps I was wishing for a pair of Jolly Green Giants and a quick extraction.

I would always like more gun than I have when I need to use one, but I have always liked having one, even if too small. But, we used .22 shorts to kill steers that weighed a ton or so, when Dad managed the meat packing plant (called a slaughter house back then) and the .22 short dropped every one of them, several dozen a day, like a sack of stones. Bang/Drop that fast! The shot was from about two inches from a 6" inch Iver Johnson or H&R top-break .22 revolver. I never saw a second shot taken.
 
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