Which Caliber for Predators???

rugerfreak

New member
I'm looking to get into coyote hunting but all I have right now are rifles in big-game calibers and I'm not really looking to blow the little song dogs to bits.

I'm also not really wanting to sink a bunch of money into a predator rifle-since there are a bunch of dollars sunk into my other rifles.

I've pretty much decided to go with a Remington ADL Synthetic---because its the only lower priced rifle chambered in .223 or .22-250 that has a 24 inch barrel.

OK--so the rifle is picked out---but which caliber .223 or .22-250??

.223--Plentiful cheap ammo and easier on the barrel.

.22-250--Flatter shooting and more authority on target.

I just can't decide.


Or do I just forget the whole thing and use the Mini-14 Ranch Rifle I already have?????? Not as accurate and loss of velocity from the shorter barrel and the gas action.

AAAAAARRRRRRHHHHHHHHH

Any help or suggestions will be very welcome.


Thanks

RF
 

Art Eatman

Staff in Memoriam
My primary coyote critter, right now, is a Ruger 77 Mk II in .223; I put a Timney trigger in it. I figure it's good to 200 yards, mas o menos.

When calling at night, most shots are well under 100 yards, anyway. To have the opportunity or need to hit out beyond 200 requires some really big open country. Any rolling hills and/or brushy stuff and 50 to 150 seems more likely...

Within 300 yards, the .22-250 is not that much flatter. It will be better for those "challenging" shots out at 400, if you're at all thinking of that sort of thing. :)

FWIW,

Art
 

JR_rcsd

New member
But Art,

He's probably gonna use bullets under 55 grain, and what a waste of perfectly good velocity!

I'd personally go with the 22-250 over the 223. You are using light bullets, most likely, and the 22-250 has a standard twist of 1/14 which is perfect for those light bullets. Accurate and fast.

I guess it depends on what YOU are looking for in a rifle, that counts.
 

Art Eatman

Staff in Memoriam
I've been meddling with my father's Sako .22-250. Found out he'd been overloading by about 8%--which blows primers out, among other things. I tried some handloads with 3031 and various 50-grain bullets, but am dissatisfied. I think it's time to play with the bedding of the forearm before I go back to the reloading bench...Trigger's too stiff, as well.

Browsing through Mr. Speer's data book, he sez that with a 50-grain bullet you get 3,400 from a .223 and 3,800 out of the .22-250.

I've found that a GI-type 50-ish grain bullet from a Mini-14 ( :) ) makes as big a mess of the off-side of a jackrabbit as does a "real hunting bullet". It's not very kind to coyotes, either.

If money's a consderation, go with the .223. If ya wanna play Ma Bell and make big messes way over yonder, move up to the .22-250...

:), Art

PS: Years ago, I used Sierra 52-grain HPBT out of a Swift at about 3,800; really neat on feral cats out around 250 to 300 yards.
 

rugerfreak

New member
Art,

What kind of velocity are you getting from your MkII?

The little Rugers seem to be handy rifles but I was thinking if I went with the shorter barrel I would be losing a lot of the cartridges' potential. Not having to come up with rings and bases is a plus too.
 

Art Eatman

Staff in Memoriam
The Speer book sez they used a 22" barrel, so I guess I'm getting around 3,300 ft/sec to 3/400 ft/sec. One of these daze I'll get a chronograph. Maybe.

I first moved to Terlingua in May of '83. I had a Mini-14 as my regular-companion truck gun. Stainless, with a K-4 on it.

I popped a few coyotes and the occasional jackrabbit. I don't guess any of them were over a hundred yards. Most of the coyotes were called in, and popped at maybe 25 to 50 yards. Roughly.

FMJ ammo worked just fine.

My opinion has come to be that any muzzle velocity around 3,000 ft/sec is as useful at 100 yards as anything faster. At around 100 yards on coyotes, there's no apparent difference in bullet behavior between FMJ and soft-point. With a chest-cavity hit they just fold their little legs up and quit. At around 40 yards the .223 will almost decapitate ol' Wiley.

If I knew that shots beyond 200 yards were going to be common, I'd prefer the .22-250 or the Swift.

Hope this BS helps,

Art
 

PJR

New member
I prefer the .223 because my Sako 75 comes in a smaller frame and lighter rifle than the .22-250. The velocity difference isn't that great and I've found the .223 a generally more accurate cartridge than it's bigger brother. I've not found any significant difference in terminal affects between the two rounds with good varmint-type bullets like Nosler Ballistic Tips of V-Max out to 200 yards.

If I'm going to go with the larger frame, I will step up to the .243 Winchester.
 

Fatelvis

New member
I think "how" you plan to hunt for `em should dictate what rifle to use. I know in my area, we have more luck "driving" them, like deerhunting . The mini-14 would do great, or a shotgun, since shots are close, and fast moving. If you`re calling `em, or expecting long shots, I`d go to a bolt, or AR. Good luck!
 

Crimper-D

New member
Haven't done Coyotes myself (yet) but...

There's a whole lot of Predator callers over on The Coyote Gods Forum: www.coyotegods.com that are making quite a case for the .17Remington for predator blasting.
I was surprised at the number when I checked the page out.
Good page, good articles....Check em out.:)
 

Jason280

New member
Definitely go with the .223. Ammo is a lot cheaper, which is a big consideration when you shoot as much as most varminters do. And unless you want to shoot past 300-400 yards, trajectory differences won't be much of a factor. Neither will the supposed "smacking" factor of the .22-250 over the .223 on coyotes. With good hollow points, the coyote is just as dead with the .223 as he is with the .22-250. Believe me, he won't know a difference.
 

biganimal

New member
I own both and don't find a lot of difference under 300 yds. both are fun to shoot and I reload for both so cost isn't a factor. I can't really help you decide so maybe you should get both....
 

Charlie Lima

New member
In either one if you want to save hides use 55 gr FMJ at medium velocity. The 22\250 will give you about 100 yds. extra range, but dead is dead. 'course i'm one of these right wing radicals so I got one of each.
 

SouthernShark

New member
I think that if I was going to get really into hunting I'd buy a 45/70, or at least a 300 Win Mag. If you can't afford that, pick up a nice 30/06 or even a Mosin Nagant (7.62x54r). SP ammo can be had pretty cheaply for either of those and it will do some damage.


-SS
 

El Rojo

New member
.45-70 for Coyotes? That is a tad bit expensive. I personally use my Remington 700 VS in .308 for coyotes. I load up Speer 125 gr. TNT HPs that are going about 2900 FPS. Every coyote I have shot in the body with that load and that gun has never escaped. I did blow a shot once and hit one in the leg and it escaped, but that is coyotes for you.

Actually I have a story I haven't really told anyone yet for some reason (am I really humble?). Dad and I were calling and he is close to the call with a 12 gauge and I am above and behind with the Remington 700 VS in .308. I don't see anything, but I hear him start shooting. I immediately get on my knees and by that time he has shot three times. I see a coyote running about 30 yards away to the right where I couldn't see before (it wasn't really a good rifle call as we were on the flat part of a sloping ridge). My dad had a far shot with the shotgun, but managed to get some good hits with the first three rounds and even put out a 4th shot. I stand up and sight in on the coyote that is now about 60-75 yards away running, but hurt. Keep in mind the Remington 700 VS in .308 with a HS Precision PRT25 stock, IOR 20 MOA mount and rings, 30mm Leupold 6.5-20x50mm scope, and Harris Model 25(s) bipod weighs quite a bit. I squeeze the trigger and shoot and the coyote goes down! I didn't hear the definitive "thump" of a solid hit, but the coyote was hauling butt and is suddenly stopped. He wasn't dead, but he was done. I ran over to a rock to shoot one more time, but didn't have a good rest and he wasn't going anywhere so I didn't shoot. I went down to inspect the coyote and it was dead by that time. I saw that the coyotes rear right leg was snapped in two and hanging on by skin. I figured out that my dad must have got some good hits in and the coyote was bound to die eventually as often coyotes will run about 100 yards and fall over dead. Before it could get away, I actually hit it in the leg and it gave up with a nearly severed leg. I was rather amazed at the whole bit that I could even get close while standing with that rifle and the scope zoomed up to about 10-12 power (I had no time to adjust anything).

Is there a lesson to all of this? Sure. For coyote calling, do you really need a heavy full barreled gun? Probably not. How many shots are you going to take in a call? With a rifle? Max 5. Is the barrel going to heat enough in that time to make a difference? No. So in hind sight, I wouldn't trade in my Remington 700 VS in .308. I shoot that gun at coyotes, deer, and for Palma matches (800, 900, & 1000 yards). However, if you are wanting to get an economical rifle for calling coyotes, I would seriously consider a regular barreled .22-250 or even a .243 that is light and easy to carry back and forth from the truck to the call and is easy to shoot standing or from a kneeling position with. Why a .243? Still a varmint round with more versatility for deciding to shoot a pig or deer if you just happen to be calling (this is my father's current want, he has shot two pigs with one shot each with his .22-250 while out hunting coyotes, but the sporter barreled .243 would be more appropriate).

As far as Southern Sharks comment, I don't think he read you were shooting coyotes and I think his recommendations are near overkill. The other thing you have to keep in mind is that large caliber rifles with SP ammo are going to have projectiles that travel a long ways. I know in some places while shooting coyotes, you want that bullet to break up and slow down as soon as possible. Rule #4 always applies, but the safer the better.

Good luck and good calling.

(Whooo Hoooooo. My 1100th post!)
 
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rugerfreak

New member
So should I be looking at a .243??

The Remington .243 seems to have a fast twist (9 1/4 IIRC) and a shorter barrel (22 inch) than the others.

Would that twist be good for the lighter varmint bullets??----What kind of velocity can I expect from the 22 inch barrel??

I have plenty of other rifles for bigger game----so this would be strictly a varmint/predator rifle.
 

DAVID NANCARROW

New member
In the end, its what kind or hunting you're going to do. If you are making long shots and a lot of shots, a heavy barrel can be quite satisfying. Close up and if you can keep a good hold, a 22LR will do the trick. And why not your other hunting rifles? Take a couple of them-keeps you sharp for hunting season;)
 
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