What's a good, but cheap digital scale?

[Unclenick]

Shredder,

Sounds like you've got your load then. What powder is it? As Bumblebug said, those measures should do pretty well with spherical powders, like the Ramshot line and others. With stick powders they tend to cut grains. The problem with cutting grains isn't the cut itself, but that it jars the powder hopper causing the powder to settle, making it more dense for the next throw. There are three things you can try to do about this:

1. Mount the measure really solidly so it can't be jarred much, even by cutting grains. A heavy steel plate is nice.
   
2. Intentionally introduce uniform vibration by tapping the side of the measure. Some folks have even gone so far as to attach fish tank aerator pumps to the powder hopper with rubber bands, then flipping it on half a second before each fill.
   
3. Add a baffle or even two baffles to the powder hopper at right angles to one another and an inch apart. The baffles make it behave as if the powder level were lower and always the same. This helps repeatability. My baffle templates are here. There is an old thread on the LNL measure, here.

 

[shredder4286]

What powder is it?

IMR 4064 and Hodgdon Varget.

Mount the measure really solidly so it can't be jarred much, even by cutting grains. A heavy steel plate is nice.

That would be a huge improvement from where I was before. I had my powder measure secured to an end-table with two little c-clamps.

So, do the baffles for the hopper just keep some of the powder above a certain spot, therefor making your charges more consistent? I saw the drawings in your pdf file, just confused about exactly what purpose the baffles serve.

 

[L_Killkenny]

Happy with my Cabelas XT1500 ($85).

Use both it an a beam.

 

[wateroperator1972]

I have never had a problem with my Hornady 1500. It's spot on always. I check the weight about every ten loads or so. http://www.amazon.com/Hornady-Electronic-Scale-1500-Grains/dp/B001KZ7JLW

 

[pathdoc]

Shredder, my alternative method is an RCBS beam balance much like yours. I'm not going to rush out and buy a $350 auto-dispensing electronic wonder either; among other things, I'm not sure it's actually that much faster than dumping the bulk of my charge with a Lee scoop and then trickling up to desired weight. I'm happy with 0.1 grain resolution, and maybe I should just accept that extra, firm 0.1 in either direction and not sweat too much (which means I should probably also go over to the ladder method of load testing).

I merely mentioned my scale's limitations as an honest disclosure of my experiences with it. I'm vey happy with it for an eyeball indication of where I am (way over, way under, getting pretty close, within acceptable margins), but my absolute trust in it decreases the closer I get to maximum (on the rare occasions I approach it). That's when I weigh every charge twice on the beam.

 

[shredder4286]

That's when I weigh every charge twice on the beam.

I've found that my powder dispenser is so inconsistent, I have to measure AND trickle every charge. I need to consider uncle nick's advice and try a more solid mount and the baffles.

 

[BuckRub]

Good and Cheap shouldn't even be in the same sentence.

 

[shredder4286]

Good and Cheap shouldn't even be in the same sentence.

Thank you for your valuable contribution to the topic. Seriously, though- reloading was originally supposed to be about saving money, not buying a bunch of expensive toys. We grow our own vegetables, why would I spend $$$ on a device which has only one purpose- to weigh gun powder?

 

[BuckRub]

If you read my posts about electronic dispensers, you'll see I'm against them. I like balance beam. Rcbs 5-0-5 is what I got. And reloading never saved me a dime. I shoot almost daily, but thousands of dollars worth of bullets, powder, primers,etc. you think I'm saving any money!!!!

 

[Farmland]

I can answer that one. If I buy cheap untreated seeds I get far less germination, rot and insect damage thus a lower crop.

Now you don't have to spend top money to buy a great scale but you certainly do not want a cheap inaccurate one either.

I don't use a top dollar one but it isn't the cheapest either. I like my Lyman 1000XP. I have had it for a few years and I think they run around $130 today.

Brian Enos sales a cheaper one on his site for around $75 that people really like. It even has something like a 20 year warranty. He also has a top German made scale for around $135 with a life time warranty.

BTW the Lyman has been tack on since the day I bought mine and works really well with either batteries or the AC adapter.

 

[shredder4286]

If you read my posts about electronic dispensers, you'll see I'm against them

I hear ya, man. I just get tired of hearing "why don't you just spend 1/2 a fortune and get this contraption?".

Now you don't have to spend top money to buy a great scale but you certainly do not want a cheap inaccurate one either.

I don't use a top dollar one but it isn't the cheapest either. I like my Lyman 1000XP. I have had it for a few years and I think they run around $130 today.

Brian Enos sales a cheaper one on his site for around $75 that people really like. It even has something like a 20 year warranty. He also has a top German made scale for around $135 with a life time warranty.

Even $75 is out of my price range. I just simply don't have that much money to put into it. And now that reloading supplies have become scarce, their cost has went up as well. Guess I'll be dry-firing a lot more this year

 

[rebs]

I have read that fluorescent lights can affect a digital scale, how is that ?
I have been using a Franklin Arsenal digital scale for about a year and it has always been within .1 of a grain. I never notice any effect from the fluorescent lights in my basement where I reload.

 

[Farmland]

Then by all means get the Frankford Arsenal DS-750, however you can save the most by just using your balance beam.

 

[Unclenick]

Rebs

If you get close enough fluorescent lamps can affect most unshielded electronic scales through RFI (radio frequency interference) that is broadcast through the air from the lamp tubes, but most often it is scales that plug into a wall that are affected, and that's by EMI (electromagnetic interference) which often has lower frequency components than RFI, but that are higher frequency than 60 cycles and that is being carried by the power lines. Both are due to the fact fluorescent bulbs have a plasma arc inside that doesn't draw current in a completely smooth way, having small lurches and stalls (noise) that are superimposed on the current average. This noise is coupled capacitively between the ballast windings into the power lines, and can travel some distance down them before dissipating. In your scale this noise contaminates with weight sensor signal.

Motors with brushes make even stronger EMI than fluorescent lamps do, but the cure is the same: you need an EMI filter. Most people use an old computer UPS (uninterruptable power supply) with a dead battery. Plug it into the wall and the scale into the UPS. These have a filter built in.

So, do the baffles for the hopper just keep some of the powder above a certain spot, therefor making your charges more consistent? I saw the drawings in your pdf file, just confused about exactly what purpose the baffles serve.

The powder level in a measure gets lower as you fill cases. This reduces the weight of powder feeding the metering chamber in the measure. In general, when that level is high, the powder is more easily packed down by vibration. It is less so as the level gets lower, tending to make throws with a low powder level lighter than they were when the level was high. These are the reasons you see some folks recommend keeping the powder level low and just adding to it constantly to improve consistency.

What the baffles do is handle that task automatically. They do this by holding back most of the powder column weight above them, and they limit vibration effect by making the powder move down and then sideways to get to the metering chamber, which breaks some of the packing up. Adding a baffle can cut variations in half pretty easily, and two of them in tandem is like adding another layer of filtering to the charge weight noise. Just keep them at right angles so both layers of powder under them have to flow sideways.

Re, your scale. There is a fellow who tunes balance beam scales. Used to charge $20. Roughly triples the sensitivity and repeatability. Scott something. You can search him out on You Tube. But the main thing is to get one of those circular plastic bubble levels from Lowe's and get the thing leveled and on a steady, vibration-free surface. Keep static electricity and drafts away from it. If need bu, disassemble and clean and make sure no iron filings have got into the gap between the damping magnets and make sure the knife edge and the notches that set on it are clean and free of oil.

 

[wogpotter]

I have read that fluorescent lights can affect a digital scale, how is that ?

Did you ever see the video of the guy holding unplugged flourescent tubes standing under a power line & they lit up?

Similar (but reversed) effect. The "spill" from pulsed a/c current can introduce variatioins into the current generated by the load cell, faking out weight changes. Also as said electronic "noise" in the a/c line has a similar effect.

 

[shredder4286]

The powder level in a measure gets lower as you fill cases. This reduces the weight of powder feeding the metering chamber in the measure. In general, when that level is high, the powder is more easily packed down by vibration. It is less so as the level gets lower, tending to make throws with a low powder level lighter than they were when the level was high. These are the reasons you see some folks recommend keeping the powder level low and just adding to it constantly to improve consistency.

What the baffles do is handle that task automatically. They do this by holding back most of the powder column weight above them, and they limit vibration effect by making the powder move down and then sideways to get to the metering chamber, which breaks some of the packing up. Adding a baffle can cut variations in half pretty easily, and two of them in tandem is like adding another layer of filtering to the charge weight noise. Just keep them at right angles so both layers of powder under them have to flow sideways.

Re, your scale. There is a fellow who tunes balance beam scales. Used to charge $20. Roughly triples the sensitivity and repeatability. Scott something. You can search him out on You Tube. But the main thing is to get one of those circular plastic bubble levels from Lowe's and get the thing leveled and on a steady, vibration-free surface. Keep static electricity and drafts away from it. If need bu, disassemble and clean and make sure no iron filings have got into the gap between the damping magnets and make sure the knife edge and the notches that set on it are clean and free of oil.

Ok. That's quite a creative way to get some more consistency out of your powder measure.

As far as the scale, I may just have to heed all advice given about the physical elements surrounding it and see if I get better results. I'll let you know how it turns out once I get my loading bench all set up. (Just moved and everything is still in boxes) Thanks again Uncle Nick

 

[wncchester]

"What's a good, but cheap digital scale?"

IME, "good" and "cheap" are mutually exclusive terms.

 

[shredder4286]

we've been down that road already, old buddy

 

[GWS]

Uncle Nick mentions a "tuned" scale by "Scott." Scott Parker is his name and he prefers phone calls, so he can explain which scales he can work on. It seems that there was a 10-10 scale produced in Mexico for a time that was untunable. He wants to make sure you don't send him one of those....look on your box. I think the price now is $65, but that includes shipping....he also sells 10-10's already tuned.

Quote from Scott:

What if you could have a beam scale that was sensitive to a single kernel of powder? No drift, no cell phone disturbance, no barometric pressure changes etc. If interested, please contact me. I tune beam scales.

Scott Parker
vld223@yahoo.com
661 364-1199

Here's a YouTube link that shows a tuned one's sensitivity: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=IG49AA1OKIk

 

[G1R2]

All electronic devices eventually fail

Never have I had an electronic device which didn't fail. They are not made to last forever. And they usually fail at the wrong time.

GET A 5-0-5 and forget about the new electronic age.