What to Recommend for My Dad

[Skeets]

Helping Dad

9mm,your Dad is fortunate to have your help too.Best Wishes, Skeets.

 

[JDBerg]

I'm not sure how much the astigmatism is playing a part in his shooting problems but he says he cannot see the sights without leaning away from it the pistol. He was nervous to try the thumbs forward grip at first since his firing hand thumb rode so close to the slide but he tried it and it worked for him, I just couldn't get him to consistently maintain that same grip. Money and time, at the moment, are at a premium for my dad I would like to be able to talk him into taking an NRA basic pistol class or something similar but I don't see it happening. I will mention it though.

If that Kimber doesn't at least have a front F.O., or NS, Dad can't see that front sight in low light conditions, so He's not going to hit his target regardless of what gun & caliber you give him! If Dad's leaning away from the pistol to see the front sight when He's shooting, He's getting hammered from the recoil of that lightweight .45 ACP, and that's not fun!

Now I'm older than your Dad, and I wear contact lenses for my astigmatism. He should get contacts if He can wear them. Otherwise, a pair of prescription shooting glasses might be the best way to go. I'd trade that Kimber Pro Carry in a heartbeat, and let him get his shooting chops down with a 4" or (preferably) a 6" Smith & Wesson 686 revolver, and a steady diet of .38 Special ammo. Help your Dad to succeed with his shooting!

 

[Tucker 1371]

It did come with night sights and we were shooting in the daylight. I think he may need something a little bigger, brighter, and easier to focus on in all light conditions.

He does have a 4" Ruger GP100, not exactly a carry piece, I didn't notice a huge difference in his shooting it versus his Kimber. Probably a combination of poorer sights and heavier trigger pull. As I mentioned earlier he shot a Glock 19 and my CZ about 25% better than his Kimber or the GP100. I will recommend that he scoop up some .38s and put some rounds through the Ruger before he attempts to practice with the Kimber again.

I'm fairly certain that his contacts correct for astigmatism, I'll have to ask him though.

 

[RCL]

RCL, something like those sights in a night sight or hi-viz variety would be nearly perfect I think.

Tucker, these are the "XS Sight Systems 24/7 Big Dot Tritium Express Sight Set" for a Kimber (not sure if it's your Dad's model). Found them on Brownells web site.

http://www.brownells.com/userdocs/skus/l_006000052_2.jpg

 

[gc70]

I'm not sure how much the astigmatism is playing a part in his shooting problems but he says he cannot see the sights without leaning away from it the pistol.

I was in the same situation at about your father's age. He is leaning away from the pistol trying to get the sights in his focus zone.

Jim Watson probably gave the best advice; your father should get a set of glasses optimized for shooting. Typical glasses have an upper section for distant vision and a lower section for closer vision. The lower section for closer vision should be set up for the distance from the eye to the front sight when shooting. The lower section is also usually made for looking down to read, etc.; that section should extend higher to allow shooting without tilting the head back.

 

[Aguila Blanca]

Thanks for all the responses y'all. My dad is 51, just FYI. And unfortunately the Valor is no longer available, he bought the Kimber about a year ago (we really need a banging head against wall smiley).

51 is hardly old enough to be worrying about too much recoil out of a traditional and proven pistol like a 1911 Commander. What is he shooting for ammunition? For now, I'd suggest shopping for the lowest velocity, standard plinking grade ammo you can find. Stay away from high-priced, +P self defense ammo.

I think it will probably be difficult to talk him into a full sized steel frame gun. I think, in either .45 or 9mm, that probably would've been best to start with.

He doesn't need a full-size. If he wants a Commander, many makers offer Commanders (both steel and alloy) in 9mm. I have two 9mm Commanders. I recently entertained guests from Europe and we spent a day at the range. If my friend's wife could have stashed my 9mm Commander in her suitcase, it would now be on the other side of the great pond. To say she "liked" it would be a massive understatement. To me, it feels like shooting a .22. Apparently, the young lady agrees.

 

[Tucker 1371]

We were shooting WWB out of a 100 pack. And age has more to do with his eyesight than his recoil issues. The reason I'm concerned with recoil is because he is, for all intents and purposes, a new shooter. I'm sure a .45 out of a steel frame commander isn't terrible but that alloy Kimber packs quite a wallop, especially for a new shooter.

Since he was set on a .45 ACP 1911 to begin with I would have preferred his first handgun to be a full size, they are generally just better to learn on than anything else, IMO. The extra inch of sight radius is a little easier to make hits with and the weight helps control recoil.

Now that he's seen the light I think the easiest thing to talk him into will probably be a 9mm 1911 Commander. I personally would like to see him go with a CZ because they're not quite so finicky but ultimately he will ask my opinion and wind up making some kind of compromise between what I suggest and what he wants.

 

[g.willikers]

51?
He isn't even beginning to deteriorate yet.
The best pistol sights for me is a tall but narrow front sight and a wide notched rear one, that allows a lot of light to be seen around the front one.
Better than any fancier stuff.

 

[pete2]

I'd suggest a full size 1911. A 9 MM is very easy to shoot in a steel 1911 gun. To me the steel Commander size gun has more muzzle whip than a full size gun.

 

[Aguila Blanca]

Since he was set on a .45 ACP 1911 to begin with I would have preferred his first handgun to be a full size, they are generally just better to learn on than anything else, IMO. The extra inch of sight radius is a little easier to make hits with and the weight helps control recoil.

I respectfully disagree, but it's different for each shooter. I've been shooting 1911s since I was on my battalion's competition shooting team (no, NOT the AMU -- I was nowhere near that good) in 1967. For me, as well as for several of my friends, an all-steel Commander (a.k.a. Combat Commander) balances better than a full-size 1911. The difference in sight radius is only 3/4 of an inch, not an inch, and out to 25 yards shouldn't make any difference at all. At 25 yards, my Officers-size 1911 (3-1/2" barrel) is just as accurate as my full-size.

In an all-steel pistol, the weight difference between a Commander and a Government model is negligible (33 oz. for the Commander, 35 oz. for the Government). For comparison, an alloy Lightweight Commander is 29.4 oz. [All weights from the Colt web site.]

But the 9mm Commander? Now THERE's a sweet shooting pistol. And Colt makes 9mm versions of both the full-size and the Commander in their entry level 1991 series. The full-size is the model O1092 (stainless only) or the model O4610 for the Commander (blued only).

One other small advantage to the 9mm models is that the magazine capacity increases to 9 rounds.

 

[g.willikers]

^^^
I agree, my first serious pistol was a Colt steel Commander in .38 Super.
Yeah, I know, I shoulda' kept it, now you tell me.
No real difference between it and a full sized .45, except for the extra capacity.

 

[Tucker 1371]

gwillikers, this is me from page one.

Also, he says he leans back because of his eyes not being able to focus on the sights so close up... He is near sighted with astigmatism. I think this is likely the biggest source of his inaccuracy and probably screws up his sight alignment.

I think 51 with astigmatism is a different story. Keep in mind this is a gun he has to carry AND learn fundamtals on. He doesn't have a .22lr handgun. Like I said earlier in the thread, I'm sure .45 out of a steel frame commander wouldn't be too bad recoil wise, but that alloy Kimber bucks worse than my Glock 23 shooting full power SD loads and I would never start a new shooter on that gun.

Regardless I think the consensus is some Commander 1911 in 9mm, or a CZ75 compact.

 

[Aguila Blanca]

Regardless I think the consensus is some Commander 1911 in 9mm, or a CZ75 compact.

Apples to oranges. The CZ-75 Compact is much closer in size to a Colt Officers ACP than it is to a Commander. The CZ has a 3.63" barrel, the Officers ACP is 3-1/2".

http://ezine.m1911.org/showthread.php?179-CZ-75-Compact-Review

The CZ-75 Compact is a very nice little pistol (I've shot them), but the trigger is never going to compare to a 1911 trigger.

 

[Tucker 1371]

Au contraire, the magic gnomes over in Cajun Gun Works' shop turn out some incredible products. A Short Reset Kit System does wonders and when I combine that with a Race Hammer and a little more polishing I'm sure my SP01 will be every bit as good as or better than any Series 80 1911.

And, being a carry pistol I would prefer him to have the option of carrying hammer down, I watched him fumble with the safety a time or two from a slow controlled draw.

Regardless, try as I might to talk him into a CZ, I think he will wind up getting a 9mm 1911. I really hope he gets a Dan Wesson Guardian.

 

[g.willikers]

Don't forget his getting training.
A good instructor will be able to cure many, and probably all, of his shooting problems.

 

[Aguila Blanca]

Au contraire, the magic gnomes over in Cajun Gun Works' shop turn out some incredible products. A Short Reset Kit System does wonders and when I combine that with a Race Hammer and a little more polishing I'm sure my SP01 will be every bit as good as or better than any Series 80 1911.

Nope. I own a couple of CZs and I am very familiar with Cajun Gun Works and their short reset trigger. It's a big improvement over the factory CZ trigger, but it can never make it as good as a half-decent 1911 trigger.

 

[geetarman]

A 9mm 1911 really does make good sense. Smith and Wesson Pro Series, Dan Wesson PM9 and the now hard to get Springfield M1911A1 are all full size 1911s in 9mm. They are a hoot to shoot. I had the PM9 at the range this morning and the FO front sight just really makes for a nice sight picture.

You might also consider either the CMD or full size Ruger SR1911. They both have good triggers and stainless steel frames to hold the recoil down.

Another option is the Springfield TRP Operator in .45. I got rid of the goofy tool and guide rod for a tooless guide rod from Dawson. That gun will flat SHOOT!

I also have the Dan Wesson Valor and some Sigs. All very nice guns. Your Dad should be able to find something that he both likes and one that works for him.
HTH

 

[geetarman]

Nope. I own a couple of CZs and I am very familiar with Cajun Gun Works and their short reset trigger. It's a big improvement over the factory CZ trigger, but it can never make it as good as a half-decent 1911 trigger.

I have to agree. I had the CZ custom shop work on my SP01 and do the competition trigger and spring set. It improved the gun a lot. It is very good for what it is. It is no 1911 though and trying to make it into one I think is a mistake.

The CZ Custom shop worked on that gun as well as a CZ97. Triggers are greatly improved on both but a PM9 or a Smith and Wesson Pro Series will put them to a big disadvantage.

I really hate to think what would happen to me should I get some range time with a Wilson or a Ed Brown. . .I don't think my bank book could stand it.

 

[Tucker 1371]

I agree the pull on a 1911 is better than any CZ, I think with some CGW parts and a little polishing you can get a trigger that beats a lot of off the shelf 1911s (not exactly a fair comparison, I know). I also, personally, prefer the reset on my CZ with the SRS to ANY 1911 I've ever felt, 1911 resets just feel mushy and indiscernible to me.

Geetarman,

Lord I'd be happy to have the money for a Dan Wesson one day, I really want a Valor or Specialist. Wilson, Ed, or Nighthawk? Not in my lifetime. Accepting reality sucks

Unfortunately I think the full size 1911s are out for him, he's set on the commander size. I would really love it if he got the Dan Wesson Guardian 9mm, I'd probably find more excuses to go down to GA...

But it's his wallet and not mine, if I had to guess I see him going with either a Springer RO Compact 9mm or a Colt XSE Commander 9mm (discontinued? I think?).

 

[AL45]

My 52 year old wife has a compact, alloy Sig 1911 in .45 ACP and she has no problem with 230 grain loads. The gun is dream to shoot and has an outstanding trigger. Recoil to me is very mild.