What makes some people think all criminals are bad shots?

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nate45

New member
Another aspect to consider

I don't believe many 'Bad Guys' are worried about duty to retreat laws, the ramifications of using head shots, or of hitting innocent by-standers. Its a possibility that many of the by-standers who get hit, may be intentionally targeted for the fun/terror factor. Even if their not, I don't think the welfare of by-standers is given much consideration.



jibberjabber said:
In a gunfight, I'd rather be lucky than good.

Fate doesn't care how much you've trained.
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I'm not sure if Gary Player was the originator of the quote or not, but he said it and it's most often referenced to him...

"The more I practice, the luckier I get"- Gary Player, winner of nine major golf championships.
 
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pax

New member
"If you are fighting for your life in a gunfight today, today is not your lucky day." ~ Tom Givens

pax
 
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Stevie-Ray

New member
I know that if I am ever in the situation where I need to draw, as far as the talent of my opponent, I'm going to be expecting the best and praying for the worst.
 
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Buzzcook

New member
I think if you check back you may find that Oswald did not qualify as Expert Marksman in the USMC.
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Yes and no. When Oswald first qualified in training he did so as "Expert". Then at re-qualification while serving in Japan he didn't.
People in the conspiracy-industrial-complex site the latter instance and never the former.


Bad guys are bad shots, because the TV machine tells me so.
 
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brickeyee

New member
Many of the bad guys may not practice as much as you, but more and more are returning home from Iraq and Afghanistan as combat hardened and US military trained soldiers.
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By what statistics?

Sounds like a 'pulled out of thin air' idea.
 
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C0untZer0

Moderator
I know that if I am ever in the situation where I need to draw, as far as the talent of my opponent, I'm going to be expecting the best and praying for the worst.
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I'm also going to be hoping that they are using cheap, not-well-maintained firearms, and also hopefully chambered in something smaller than .355 caliber.

I think the statistics bear out that criminals do use a lot of .32 and .25 caliber firearms, but the police officer that was killed in Chicago right before Christmas was shot with a 9mm.

The shooter used a Tec-9. The Tec-9 had a reputation for being a jam-o-matic. The guns that were made before the company folded up were terrible, besides jamming, they had crooked sights and internals that would break and even the early models didn't do well feeding anything but FMJ . My Tec-9M always worked fine with FMJ and Federal Nyclads.

It might be said that the shooter was using a cheap low-quality firearm in the Chicago shooting, but if the accounts are true he shot three times and missed with none of them. The distance wasn't far but the shooter made a head shot and then put two in the chest of officer Lewis.

So his shooting was as good as it needed to be to kill someone.

I know its anecdotal, but it just reminds me that not all the criminals are carrying Davis, Ravens, Lorcins and the like.
 
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hangglider

Moderator
I'm sure it happens--but I'm dubious of the "increasingly" x-vet criminal claim--especially as a hardened repeat offender type. I'm guessing vet shootings is more of a PTSD/emotional imbalance or occasionally because the SO didn't have the will to keep their shorts/panties on while the service person was away.
 
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C0untZer0

Moderator
The military is made up of people, some people commit crimes some don't.

I knew a soldier at Fort Huachuca who murdered a fellow soldier in a particularly gruesome way. I was aware of a guy in my battalion at Fort Polk who was jealous that another soldier was dating someone he liked, so he put a 12" Rambo knife in the gut of his romantic rival. My friend and the guy who fixed my CUCV tackled him as he tried to flee the scene.

I can't tell you how many pot heads I knew who got chaptered out.

It's not like putting on the uniform makes you an angel.

On the other hand - this notion that returning vets are going to get angry and dissilusioned because they cannot find jobs and they're going to join militias and plot the over throw of the governmnet turn into Timothy McVeighs and or turn into Platt and Matixes... is ridiculous.
 
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Nnobby45

New member
People think that because most of them are. But, as has been pointed out, not all.

Many gang members have been involved in shootouts. Many have shot other people and have been shot themselves. What that means is that many are NOT going to be shaking in their boots when confronted by you or me. They're the ones more likely to have "combat" experience--maybe a lot of it. Even if it means just pointing a gun and spraying bullets.

Most are still probably bad shots, but that doesn't mean they aren't dangerous, given the close nature of shootings.

Not a pleasant thought, but some may have the right mental attitude for winning gun fights. Some may run like rabbits if someone fights back.

Don't worry about their attitude. Worry about yours.:cool:
 
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csmsss

New member
Many gang members have been involved in shootouts. Many have shot other people and have been shot themselves. What that means is that many are NOT going to be shaking in their boots when confronted by you or me. They're the ones more likely to have "combat" experience--maybe a lot of it. Even if it means just pointing a gun and spraying bullets.

Most are still probably bad shots, but that doesn't mean they aren't dangerous, given the close nature of shootings.

Not a pleasant thought, but some may have the right mental attitude for winning gun fights. Some may run like rabbits if someone fights back.

Don't worry about their attitude. Worry about yours.
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I couldn't agree more. Many/most gangbangers are more than happy to put themselves in harm's way to get what they want - whether that be your money, your wife, or the "respect" of their gangbanger buddies. Their lives are lived on the street, and the things that are precious to us are, generally, irrelevant to them. So...in that encounter you may find yourself involved in with one or more of these fellas, ask yourself a question. Am I as determined to win as he is? Am I as willing as he is to risk grievous bodily injury/death to prevail? Am I as willing as he is to inflict grievous bodily injury/death upon my opponent? Because if you cannot answer each and every one of these questions with the same answer (Yes, of course), you are unlikely to win such an encounter.
 
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wayneinFL

New member
More denial with all encompassing derogatory statements. For many, being a badguy is a job and one they work very hard at being a bad guy.
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Oh sure. Someone who points a gun at someone to get a car is working just as hard as the guy who's been making the payments for 4 years. :rolleyes:

And I'll be as derogatory as I want with crooks who will kill people to take their things.

I'm lazy and I'm laid off for the winter, so does that mean I'm in danger of loosing my Good Guy status?
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That's not what I said. Go rob a liquor store and we'll talk about it.
 
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nate45

New member
pax said:
"If you are fighting for your life in a gunfight today, today is not your lucky day." ~ Tom Givens

pax
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Maybe "The more I practice avoidance and situational awareness, the luckier I get." would be a better quote.

'Cause I agree, no matter how much one practices with firearms, being involved in a shooting is very unlucky.
 
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armoredman

New member
I've worked with felons for 10 years and if there is one thing they understand, it's pure naked force. I've met some that were walking suits of skin with nothing human inside, and believe the whole world is there for their pleasure only. Getting in the way of that is "disrespect" and worthy of death.

Amazing how often those who claim someone is disrespecting them started off being the disrespectful ones, but will never see it that way, for the exact same reason above.

I plan as if my home invader can fight like Chuck Norris and shoot like Angus Hobdell - I will do everything I can to put the advantage on my side, same as on the street.
 
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hangglider

Moderator
More shootings to end the day--one of which involving an assault rifle (which are becoming more popular in drive-by shootings): http://timesfreepress.com/news/2012...-respond-shots-fired-oak-street/?breakingnews http://timesfreepress.com/news/2012/jan/10/man-shot-near-east-lake-courts/ I think it's safer to assume that the gangstahs are going to use anything they can get their hands on anytime but are smart enough to train themselves. I have no idea what to do defensively when somebody opens up with an assault rifle and all I have is a CCW pistol except hope that some kind of cover is available. My situational awareness of vehicles has changed completely.
 
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csmsss

New member
Just because a news report describes a firearm as an "assault rifle", does not necessarily mean it actually is an assault rifle. I wouldn't assume that the news report is accurate.
 
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hangglider

Moderator
I think the odds of a police officer recognizing an assault rifle for what it is are pretty good. I hear 30 round mags going off in the neighborhood quite frequently--there's no doubt in my mind some of the gangstahs have em and know how to use them. A couple of days ago a vehicle was found at he scene of a shooting--all the windows were blown out and it was riddled with bullets from front to back. Typical MO for gangs is get in and out fast.
 
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hangglider

Moderator
It's becoming a war zone here. I don't think people really understand modern gang growth in urban USA these days. Interestingly, the city council just nixed a funding request for a study on gangs. While most of the serious violence seems to be directed at each other in the gang community--the consequences are tearing apart the social fabric of the community as a whole and the costs are without a doubt going to hit everyone--even if they are not necessarily in a gangstah's gunsights. To get some idea of how socially pervasive the gang problem is, all you have to do is look at the kids in school: http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/2011/nov/13/schools-call-for-police-help-thousands-of-times-a/ The penal system reaches an "overload" point and BGs are turned back out onto the street for "lesser" crimes--the guy who took shots at the cops this weekend during a house robbery had been arrested 23 times according to one TV news report.
 
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jimbob86

Moderator
In other words, it's just like during Prohibition, only we put more people in jail now.
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Only back then, there were no repeat offenders in Capital Murder ..... and "died in prison" was quite common.....
 
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