What Best Defines Accuracy?

JohnKSa

Administrator
This is maybe 4 different discussions wrapped up into one thread.

The OP's original question is about statistics.

There are also discussions about:

1. The definition of 'accuracy' vs. 'precision'.
2. The definition of 'practical accuracy'.
3. Common practices in benchrest competition.

What could possibly go wrong? :D
 
Accuracy

Accuracy is term that can be used to describe actions. Examples like accuracy in accounting, accuracy of reporting, accuracy of predicting have nothing to do with shooting. Bart was asking about how the term applies to shooting. The definition of accuracy is "the quality or state of being correct or precise." To answer Bart, correctness or precision beg definition. I'm my humble opinion, accuracy of a shot is best described as hitting a target where the shooter intends.
 

stinkeypete

New member
The best definition of accuracy is “how close does each bullet hit, compared to where I was aiming, for every shot of a comparable set.”

The sets that are compared could be things like “for this exact load” or “during this competition” or “on this day” or “at this exact temperature and atmospheric pressure and wind” etc etc including every combination one can think of.

Locations can be measured in the Cartesian system (x,y,z) which is (length, width, height) or in polar coordinates (r, theta, phi).

Polar coordinates may seem more complicated but are a powerful tool for many applications, especially when dealing with circles, balls, the earth, astronomy, and when pointing at things.

The Cartesian system is named after Renee Descartes, French mathematician who invented GRAPHING in about 1625 or so. Until then, no one knew how to make a graph, everyone used tables.

It should be noted that Descartes, being really smart, didn’t feel restricted in using coordinate systems that were orthogonal… that is, his x, y and z didn’t need to be at right angles to each other. He could define the transformations and then graph away, for his particular data, and understood what it meant.

Being really smart like that, not many other people could figure his graphs out.

After Newton invented the cookie, Billybob Polar invented the Polar system. In this case, we could compare all bullet hits for all ranges by measuring the angular deviation… beta squared = theta squared + phi squared.

Strictly speaking, the famous marksman Pythagoras shot at the inside spherical section with a radius of 100 strides, so his misses were at the same range as his exact hits. It’s only because of shipping and manufacturer demands that we notice that for very large radii, a flat target’s radius squared= x squared + y squared + z squared results that within practical measurements was the same as x squared. Around 1910, the Government started doing accuracy tests at oh-about-waaaaay-far for the .30 cal Springfield using flat paper targets.

Long story short, in the Polar system, deviation between point of aim and point of impact, independent of target distance, is most easily measured in angular deviation.

The French, wanting to gamble, invented statistics. This way, they did not need to measure the impact of every bullet and could get on with playing cards, drinking wine and wearing berets.

Oh, we use a system of degrees… 360 degrees per full rotation
‘Minutes’… 60 minute per degree (‘) and
‘Second’… 60 seconds per degree
Because of the Slide Rule, which says “give me a few hundred years to invent the decimal system and a few hundred more to invent the calculator.”

Base 60 is very good when using fractions- it’s divisible by 2,3,4,5,6 and 10 by old farts who learned the times tables. Having done that, we pull out our phones like normal people when dividing real world numbers.

Us old farts insist that “accuracy” and “precision” are distinct and very important different concepts, often confused.

An accurate rifle shoots a tight group on the X
A precise rifle shoots a tight group low and to the right… correctable later.
My new shotgun is accurate but horribly not precise… the huge even widely spaced group is centered on the x.
 
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tangolima

New member
The probability of hitting an intended target. Other than that it all entertainment, winning a match, breaking a record and all that.

-TL

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
 

stagpanther

New member
The probability of hitting an intended target. Other than that it all entertainment, winning a match, breaking a record and all that.

-TL
I have to admit I've always liked the "Hathcock theory" that there is only one shot that counts--the first cold bore one.
 

kilotanker22

New member
According to Oxford Languages, accuracy as a technical term is defined as:

"The degree to which the result of a measurement, calculation, or specification conforms to the correct value or a standard."

To me, this means that the measure of a rifle's accuracy should be considered as how reliably you can place a bullet within a predetermined proximity to the point of aim.

Precision is:

"Refinement in a measurement, calculation, or specification, especially as represented by the number of digits given."

To me, this represents group size, or the measurement obtained from firing a number of shots and the relation of those individual shots relative to each other shot.

You could think of precision as a scalar measurement representing overall group size. You can think of accuracy as a vector quantity representing the relation between the point of impact and point of aim.

To sum this up, in my opinion. Accuracy is the ability to put bullets where you want them to be. Precision is a measure of group size.
 

Reloadron

New member
What Best Defines Accuracy?

I always define accuracy the same way. Unbiased precision with precision defined as a high measure of repeatability. The simple cartoon version looks like this:
Accuracy%20and%20Precision.png


Ron
 

Bart B.

New member
Bart B...just curious, is there an actual, technically correct answer to your original question?
Maybe, but it depends on ones objectives, conditions and standards.

Kilotanker22's is good. Reloadron has an interesting perspective.
 

Reloadron

New member
Hey Bart, how goes it?
Reloadron has an interesting perspective.

I guess my perspective is about my career which constantly crossed paths with Metrology (Measurement Technology) within the Navy Nuclear Propulsion Program.

Since the question of accuracy frequently comes up in my shooting forums I made the image I posted. During the last 20 years of my career my department head, a mechanical type, referred to my design schematics, me an electrical type, as my cartoons so it stuck as to my drawings. :)

While we can define accuracy in words I figure an image can sum it up to aid in getting our points across. Most definitions, not all, come close to my cartoon. I do not see it as much about groups of a number of rounds. If I have my point of aim at 6:00 O'Clock on the black and my shot or shot is in the 10X I have accuracy. Matters not if I shoot 10 rounds in 10 min or 10 rounds at one a day for 10 days. Just how I see it. My perspective. :)

Ron
 

Ricklin

New member
What Matters?

What matters to me. Practical accuracy.

I'm more a shotgunner tho I do enjoy range time with pistols and revolvers too.

My most accurate guns in general are those guns that fit me well. Those guns may well be capable of greater accuracy than I can deliver, what matters? What it does in my hands. My brother loves his lead sled, he would like to use it when he is shooting against me.:)

Fit is critical for shotguns, it matters for all guns.
 

hounddawg

New member
For me it would be small many shot groups. In all competitions I compete in I need to put 20 or more shots as close to possible to my point of aim. I try to develop loads where I have around a .5 MOA 95% CEP for 20 or more rounds
 

Picher

New member
My .243 loads are not extensively tested, unlike other hunting loads. I just picked one out of the manual and it shot well enough for me. I never seriously hunted much with the .243, but loaded some ammo right out of the manual that were fine for the kids to hunt with and the rifle is light to carry down back. One day, on a whim, I had my grand-daughter shoot three shots at 150 yards at my deer gong heart, while standing/leaning off the back of the pickup cover, using a sandbag for a rest. They were inside of one inch! (Since she grew up out-of-state, I never had the chance to shoot with her much.) The very next day, she shot a nice 140 lb. doe with that rifle at 150 yards. She also just won an award in the Air Force for her rifle shooting. She's an MP, or whatever they call it in the AF.

(Her brother was an award-winning army sniper who won awards in the Army, but that has little bearing here.) When he was about 10, I taught him how to shoot rifles with my super-accurate 10-22.
 

Metal god

New member
44 & Stag nailed it on the first 2 respoces . Nuff said !

Bart B...just curious, is there an actual, technically correct answer to your original question?

Yes and he knows the answer . Over the years he has started asking questions he knows the answer to , then challenging the answers . He really helped me out in these forums ten years ago with good thoughtful answers but lately I feel he’s decided to carry Guffey’s torch in his absence lol
 
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