Weaver vs. Isosceles...

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Jeff22

New member
Shooting stances

I started shooting with a modified Weaver/Chapman stance back in about 1978.

The last few years I have been trying to convert to a modern Isoceles stance with the thumbs forward grip. All the cops I train these days were trained that way and to properly instruct or coach them I need to be able to shoot that way better.

The old dog can learn new tricks, but it's coming slowly. I still have to think about it sometimes. 35+ years of programming is hard to rewrite.:cool:
 
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4V50 Gary

Staff
While similar, the archer's stance is more perpendicular to the target than the Weaver. Weaver as I was taught is slightly bladed. One thing about archery is that you learn to address the target. This is something I tried to teach the kids (with mixed results) at Whittington Center's Adventure Camp. Their archery instructor was very, very good and if i had a kid, I'd want him to be his/her coach. He works full time at the range in Lost Wages.

BTW, I teach both Weaver and Isoceles. Each has its valid points and application.
 
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Photon Guy

New member
I am reading a book, The Modern Day Gunslinger by Don Mann, copyright 2010, that favors the modified isosceles stance as the most natural to assume when faced with an attack.
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Modified in what way?
 
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AK103K

New member
Modified in what way?
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And faced with what kind of attack?

What do you do if you need to go with the flow and adapt to whats going on, and its not what youre used to or planned on doing?

I still dont see how any one "way" works in all situations. You need to be well-rounded and flexible (and sometimes literally) in how you shoot.
 
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JimPage

New member
Photon Guy: Basically he said that as the body reacts to a sudden attack it naturally assumes the isosceles stance. He modifies it by putting the strong side foot slightly back from the weak side foot.... about half a foot. Seems insignificant. I don't support any one stance - just adding to the conversation.
 
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Brit

New member
The way I fought, mirrors the way I shoot, my strong side, right side, arm is locked up tight, the left arm pulls back. I find it controls the recoil.
Right foot is back a bit!

In fighting, the right foot is liable to kick, just as much as hands fly.

When I taught full time, when asked what stance a student should use, whatever feels right, was my answer!
 
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Sgt127

New member
Several things have also caused changes in shooting techniques (military and LE). The Weaver stance had several advantages in uniform. It was the stance you were already in with your gun side away from the threat. So, the draw was more natural. Also, it was opined, that being bladed made one a smaller target.

Since armor, especially hard armor became popular, squaring up to the threat and putting the whole plate between you and the threat became the norm. Also, with hard armor, it's alot more comfortable to shoot with both arms equally extended.

I've always shot kind of a mid way between the two stances. All of my handgun instruction was from a first line descendant of the original Gunsight and very close friend of Jeff Cooper. He was one of Jeff's original instructors for years. It was (1984-ish) and the height of IPSC when we met.

Now, after 30+ years, torn up shoulders, assorted aches and pains, it's still the most comfortable for me. Both arms up and head down just is uncomfortable for me. If it hurts, I'm not going to shoot as well, so, I'm not changing.

I had to realize that when I'm teaching now. There are no absolutes. People bodies are different. I show both, ask the students to kind of tinker around and find the one that works best for them and kind of stick with it. I'm a big proponent of consistency. Get the front sight between your eye and the target and get on the trigger.

I don't like absolutes. But, watch others, use what works.
 
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JohnKSa

Administrator
Both arms up and head down...
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I do see some people ducking their heads when they shoot, but most folks will have better results bringing the gun up to their line of vision instead of ducking their head to line up their sights. Regardless of what stance they use.
 
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Sgt127

New member
I think you're right. I've seen some people almost do the turtle thing. Most stay pretty upright. I sorta have to because of a little pain in my right shoulder. Actually, I have a full range of movement, it just sounds like you stomped on a bag of Doritoes when I go too far. Still works though. :)
 
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briandg

New member
I don't know what I do. Body tilted slight to right, both hands together on pistol, straight right arm and slight bent right elbow, pulling back with left arm, and solid everything.

THIS IS A BAD IDEA. my strong arm is covered, but my weak arm is not only not covered by fire, it is also poorly covered by peripheral vision. I target shoot, and need to work on learning a combat stance. I have never really busted my keister planning for multiple dangerous targets, mostly single assailant or dangerous critter. As it is, I can acquire my weapon and get on target quickly fire accurately at moderate distances, but I'm still badly uncovered on weak side.
 
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Brit

New member
When I first started teaching professionally, in order to do so, I had to get the permission of the Staff Sgt. in charge of that Dept. In the OPP (Ontario Provincial Police) So I got a temporary letter to operate, then I would get evaluated by that group. Two Sgt's.

My class size I set at 8, my indoor range (a bunker!) would only safely accommodate 4 at once, two lines of four. So I allowed a paid group of 6, to let the Officers to participate.

These two middle aged Sgt's turned up with writing pads! And 2 1/2 barreled S&W 6 shot revolvers, and a speed loader (80s all Police and Security where so armed) "We can not use our duty rounds" the both said.

As I had lots of my reloads that was not a problem. The 6 young people had never fired a handgun b/4! Grip and sighting I covered with a 4" Mod 10 S&W.

It had no cylinder, it spit lead, so I dumped the cylinder, the trigger operated the hammer, as in double action (all I taught) and it had sights.

How to teach sights, and trigger control, take each individual (I left the Cops out of this part, they had been on the job for 20 years?)

Demo the grip and double action trigger press, find master eye, try both eyes open!! look at their master eye, with my master eye, align sights, so the student knows what they should see.

The cops shot real low, at the 15m distance! When I used the sight alignment check? I found they were looking over the sights! When they left, 100% improvement. They told the boss they learned more in 4 hours, than they had in all the years they had spent at work.

Yes I got my permission. And ran my School for 25 years.
 
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iraiam

New member
both

I use both, for just straight on range target shooting, I shoot iso, but if the range requires any movement at all, I find myself in weaver either left or right handed.
 
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