Weapon Lights and the Cardinal Rule

Byron Quick

Staff In Memoriam
I'm with Rob on this one. Never have liked the idea of mounted lights just didn't have as many reasons as he has. I've had an intruder in the house. Came home at 2 am during the burglary. Had him trapped for two hours before I realized someone was there. I beat a strategic advance outside as he was between me and my firearms and I was between him and the doors. That was when I became "tactically" inclined. Letting a Rottweiler do the house clearing is more my style. If he bites it, I'll give him backup :) I can stay in the dark until I hear him raising hell.
 

STEVE M

New member
Let me try this again. I believe in both a gun mounted light and a hand held light (plus night sights). Use the hand held light if at all possible. If you have to grab a child, get shot in 1 arm, or only have fractions of a second, then use the gun mounted light. This should not be either/or. The more options we make available to ourselves, the safer we can keep our families.
 

StanA

New member
Every single situation is going to be different! There is not one answer? Just my two cents worth. Stan.
 
In my mind there are a number of absolutes to weapons handling.
1. A weapon is ALWAYS loaded.

2. Never point a weapon you do NOT wish to destroy.

3. This is one one I feel to be MOST important. NEVER, absolutly NEVER fire at something you can't see and identify.

Despite all of the drawbacks to tactical lights on weapons the need to ID the target is paramount.

In war there will always be KIAs through friendly fire. In violent HD encounters however the repurcussions of firing at a mistaken target are monumental.

Ben
 

James K

Member In Memoriam
Mount the light right on the pistol. Then use a two hand hold facing the potential target. If you do this right, the "target" will put a mag full of hollow points right through the light and into your chest or head.

Lights make great targets!

Jim
 

Bob Thompson

New member
To add to Jim Keenans post I was taught a long while ago when entering a room of potential threats to go in low, as close to the floor as possible and if dark and a light is needed to hold away from your body and as far out as possible to give a BG a bad target if he is armed. This would require a one handed weapon hold which we should always practice anyways. The BG if they open fire while blinded by the light would probably shoot at the light giving you a better chance of survival and returning fire. This may seem "old hat" but it seems a good senario. Some states require qualification for CC permits that you use each hand seperatly to shoot at short yard targets. I am not in police work and do not know current training but the before mentioned system was taught by the military in past years. It seems as though much of what we see is Hollywood but common sense must prevail in worst case senarios.
 

Chuck Ames

New member
Hey Guys,

The thing to remember is that weapon mounted lights were originally used by operators in the special operations/hostage rescue arena, and most notably the SAS as far back as the Princess Gate siege in 1980. In the CQB environment it is certainly necessary, and the skill level of the operators far surpasses most if not all of us, and most if not all of the SWAT shooters out there.

Current Army doctrine does not promote holding the light out away from the body, ala the FBI method of the late 70's early 80's. During the SRT course it was weapon mounted lights for the teams with good budgets and command support, and the Harries technique for the rest of us.

While in Korea, I got in a heated discussion with my First Sergeant and some Major about the old FBI technique. My belief was that unless you are pointing the light directly at someone's eyes from that position, there will be enough ambient or reflected light for the bad guy to see exactly what you are doing. Not being able to back that up, a buddy of mine and I tried it in pitch black (minus the guns). We each took the light and held it away from our bodies and scanned the barracks area. Sure enough, unless the light was pointed directly at you, you could tell where the "good" guy was and where his light was. Try it!

On another note, if someone is pointing a sure-fire at you in the confines of a building, the last thing you are going to be able to do, is fire one or two into the light, much less their face. Again, try it. I do know that even at 15-20 meters on a vehicle stop at night, we'd often see the drivers looking at us through their wing mirror, so we used to shine our lights on the mirror so he couldn't watch our approach; invariably he'd look away.

If any of us has to use a weapon/light combination to clear our own house:

a: we're in trouble, cause clearing alone sucks.

b: we should be doing it nice and slow, using cover, and pieing our way into uncleared areas.

The thing that has always struck me about commandments 11-14, is that they are redundant. IF you accidentally muzzle flash someone, your finger is off the trigger. IF your finger is on the trigger, and you slip and fall and have a negligent discharge, your weapon was pointed in a safe direction. IF you have to evaluate a threat, your weapon may be temporarily pointed at the target, but you have trained to never let your finger enter the trigger guard unless you have positively ID'ed him/her/it, and you are prepared to fire.
And you NEVER play with the gun, so you have always maintained a healthy respect for what it is: a weapon.

If that makes you uncomfortable, I would suggest holding the flashlight in your left hand, across your body, and placing the butt of it on your right shoulder. In your right hand you can hold the weapon in a one-handed low ready, and still pie a room, minimizing body exposure, while maintaining an ability to fire without muzzle flashing anyone. It's not perfect, but nothing is.
 

EQUALIZER

New member
Kurt,

I agree with you. Mounted lights can be a great tool with proper use and so long as all safety requirements are meant. The "light" issue carries over to other tools of the trade as well. For example:

How many times have I been out deer hunting and have caught a hunter trying to get a closer look at me through his scope!!! This is completely unappropriate and violates several safety rules right off of the bat. I've been tempted at those times to raise my own rifle and shout "Lower your weapon, you @#$!*!"!!! I did not, as I did not wish to also violate safety rules against a stupid @$!@# who I did not believe was out too hunt me. They were being stupid and disrespectful to put it nicely.

This is a good topic and I am glad that it is being addressed. \

By the way, solution to the problem of seeing things close up w/out using scope: I carry a pair of zoom 7-15 power lightweight binoculars when hunting and scouting. I do not have a light mounted on my gun, but the same SOLUTION holds true. Just carry a separate flashlight and keep gun pointed in SAFE direction until ready to shoot bad guy. Anything wrong with that? I realize that different situations call for different tactics, but violating safety of a possible innocent isn't called for most of the time IMHO.

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"But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip; and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." -Jesus Christ (Luke 22:36, see John 3:15-18)


[This message has been edited by EQUALIZER (edited November 01, 1999).]
 

EQUALIZER

New member
Protoolman,

I agree. You make a good point. When it really comes down to it, the type of switch and the tactics that are needed for the given situation has much to do with this topic. Light off until needed makes sense for home defense scenarios. The momentary switches and their accessability on lights are also nice features for defensive lights. I would not like to fire a weapon without double checking the identity of the individual and making sure hes got a weapon. This is where I think that a light is most practical, even more so than the advantage of blinding him.

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"But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip; and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." -Jesus Christ (Luke 22:36, see John 3:15-18)
 
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