Weapon Lights and the Cardinal Rule

[Kurt]

Lights mounted on pistols, shotguns and carbines have become commonplace. As weapon mounted lights become the de facto standard for professionals (especially as portrayed by gun magazines and movies) -- it becomes standard practice for all shooters.

To me this begs fundamental safety issues. Weapon mounted lights may be a great invention; but they clearly compromise our most fundamental safety rule:

"NEVER point the muzzle of a gun at something that you are not willing to destroy"

is watered down to:

"EXCEPT when using a weapon mounted light in a potentially dangerous environment -- never point the muzzle of a gun at something that you are not willing to destroy."

I realize that safety is an individual responsibility; but fundamental rules do help us discipline our thinking and our behavior (President Clinton excepted, of course). What happens when a beginning shooter seeks to buy that first "home protection night-stand pistol" and the gun store recommends an HK with barrel mounted tactical light? Isn't this a tacit recommendation to break a long-standing cardinal rule of safe gun handling?

I am neither "for" or "against" weapon lights - but they do raise a question in my mind. I would appreciate hearing everyone's thoughts on the "pros and cons" of these systems and whether anyone shares my concerns.

Thanks and good shooting!

Kurt

 

[Rob Pincus]

I am against them, not just for the "never point" rule, but that is a big factor.

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-Essayons

 

[boing]

Rob,
what other factors are you refering to?

I have a light mounted on my Mossberg 500. Prior to getting it, before going to bed, I would leave a few strategically placed lights on in the house. (or should that be tactically placed?)

In those days, I could light all "potential threat zones" as seen from my bedroom (safe room). But if the power went out, or the bulb burned out, what to do? And the arrangement of my new residence doesn't give me the strategic lighting option.

So I got a light for the shotgun. Holding a flashlight while manipulating a pumpgun under stress, and probably moving to cover, seems like a bad idea. Pointing a gun at something that might not be a threat is also a bad idea.

Enter what I consider to be the big advantage of a pumpgun for home defense: The chamber can be kept empty while investigating suspicious (non-cat) noises. If I encounter something that needs to be shot, chambering a round and firing takes almost no time at all.

I do not mean to waffle on important safety issues! All guns ARE always loaded, And NEVER point a gun at something you aren't willing to DESTROY! But, as I do need to identify the target, and all I have is the long gun, I have tried to balance all concerns (safety for me/safety for them). To this end, one ritual I practice without fail is checking the chamber right before getting into bed. Unless I've been sleepwalking, I know the gun will be in safemode when something goes down in the middle of the night.

Criticisms/alternatives are welcome!

-boing


[This message has been edited by boing (edited February 14, 1999).]

 

[Rob Pincus]

WEll, you sorta answer yor own question. How do you know the chamber's empty? I mean, afterall, I never had an AD with a gun that I thought was loaded. Most accidents happen with "unloaded" guns.

I think it puts you in completely the wrong mindset to use your gun as a flashlight while you are invetigating a problem.

Furthermore, I don't like lights on guns becuase it is one more thing to worry about (batteries, lenses, wires, etc...).
On handguns, the holster issue is obviously a factor.

For a combat situation or an entry team I can see putting a light on a gun, but for a defensive situtation I just don't think they are appropriate.

There are options to the "working a pump gun with a light under stress" scenario. Such as using a semi-auto or wearing one of those miner hats with the flash light attached ( ).

If you it works for you, that's great, I just prefer not to use them. I am not very likely to go walking through the house with a longgun anyway. If I have to go check on the kids, etc.. I take a handgun and a Surefire or Maglight. My shotguns are for the safe-room or outdoors only.

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-Essayons

 

[boing]

Rob,
All points well taken (except the miner's hat )

I have a less-than-ideal situation, to be sure, and poking around my house with the 12 gauge isn't a habit of mine. I'll let my 14 dogs do that. But given what I have to work with (only one gun, a pump), it does work for me, for now. It is a compromise of evils, but seems to be the least evil of my choices at hand.

For later, I will definitely be purchasing a handgun, for carry, as well as the home. I am, shall we say, financially constrained from improving my options in a more timely manner (I'm broke!).

-boing

 

[Rob Pincus]

Broke is okay, at least you are smart enough to have a firearm and be concious of learning how to use it effectively.

Keep up the good work ad be careful where you point your pump-action flashlight .

 

[boing]

"Broke is okay"? I don't follow you...

-boing

 

[4V50 Gary]

Kurt, thanks for reposting your question to Harry's forum.

Like Rob, I dislike the idea of a flashlight on a defensive mounted firearm. Self illuminated nightsights for me. As explained to me, flashlights on entry weapons serve to blind the opposition with a flood of lights).

 

[pate]

I think it depends on the house. When it's dark enough inside my house that I need to use a pistol-mounted light, it's dark enough that the light illuminates an entire room. It becomes unnnecessary to point the light at a person to illuminate him.

 

[boing]

pate-
I've noticed that, too. Even with the light set to it's narrowest beam, everything in the room is clearly visible. Considering this, if you choose to use a weapon-mounted light, it would be wise to develop the habit of keeping the muzzle down when activating the light. Thanks for reminding me. I'll be adopting this technique immediately.

Gary-
Do you mean to say that blinding your opponent in a defensive situation is a bad idea? (I don't think you are, but could you clarify?)
Night sights work, but they don't show you what you're shooting at, they only show you if you're going to hit it.
And I think handgun/long gun makes a difference. I wouldn't put a light on a handgun, but I would put on night sights, with a flashlight in my weak hand. With a pump shotgun, complete two-handed control is paramount to using the tool effectively. That's my quandary! I'm actually using the wrong tools! Aaarrgh!

-boing

[This message has been edited by boing (edited February 14, 1999).]

[This message has been edited by boing (edited February 14, 1999).]

 

[STEVE M]

I think the best use of the gun mounted light is as a back up. Use a hand held if at all possible. For home defense, if all you can grab is the gun while you go get the kids don't you want some kind of light to prevent mistaken itendity shooting? Night sight are great( i have them) but options are better! Never limit yourself to one response.

 

[Rich Lucibella]

I have to disagree here. You should have a flashlight and a gun in low or no light defensive situations.

That said, whether your intent is to dial 911, barricade and observe or to move down the hallway to secure the kids, you'll need both items.

If we agree thus far, then how do we employ the light? With a pistol we'd use the Harries Technique or the Rogers Technique. In either case, we're using the weapon as an integral of the light. The weapon covers an area that is unknown until the light is brought to bear.

Attaching a ight for specific situations seems to me a logical economy of burden..especially with the shotgun. Note I said a light, not the only light.

I do agree that lighting while simultaneously covering an area with the muzzle is a dangerous thing....practice should be undertaken. But to argue against lights on the gun is to simultaneously argue against both the Harries and Rogers techniques.
Rich

 

[boing]

Enlighten me, please.

Harries: the weak hand holds the light with the lens at the pinky finger side, and is placed under the gun hand, with the backs of both hands put together, right?

What's the Rogers technique?

-boing

 

[Rob Pincus]

I don't think so Rich, here's why:

In an LE situation, yes, I am using a two handed grip with the handgun and light more or less pointing in the same area...

However, When I am in my home with my family and I am "chekcing things out" I have the gun low and the flashlight in my weakhand, usually "pulsing" not walking around using it as a spotlight "painting" the rooms.

That is the difference. At the level where the gun is out for a known reason (looking for suapect, searching a crime scene, etc...) I ahve no problem with pointing the gun where the light goes.. it is for those lower threat levels that I think the light on the gun is not warranted.

I think the best option so far has been to have the light mounted on a long gun as a back-up. How much time would you be losinfg by having a round chambered and carrying the gun low with a FL in your weak hand VS. not having a round chambered and both hands on the gun ?? I'd rather count on taking that first shot one handed at in-house ranges than have to worry about pointing a gun at my child (or having to rack the slide while a BG is point a gun at me, for that matter...)

 

[4V50 Gary]

Boing - For entry teams, blinding the opposition is an excellant idea. I don't think the concept is inapplicable in self (or home) defense. You're right about night sights not helping you identify your target. But in my home, there's sufficient ambient light (thanks to all the streetlights outside) that I'd rather not bother with a flashlight. For me, it's a personal choice.

 

[Rich Lucibella]

boing-
Rogers: light held between index and second fingers of weak hand, like a cigar....thumb activates. Weak hand is able to be used in it's normal support position.

Rob-
In regards to mounting a light on a handgun, you've got me and I agree the low ready is appropriate. But how do you carry a shotgun in one hand and a flashlight in the other and expect to bring that shotgun into immediate play, one handed?
Rich

 

[boing]

Rob,
It almost sounds like you're saying that it is acceptable to point your gun at a friendly when you are at a crime scene, but it is unacceptable when the friendly is a member of your own family! I know better (I think), but that's what it sounds like.

So how would you differentiate levels of threat? Whether searching for a suspect at a crime scene, or in your own home, if the gun comes out, don't you assume equal probability of encountering a BG (or a Non-BG)? Is it that a crime scene directly indicates a BG, while a suspicious noise at home only indicates something suspicious?

As for carrying a (pump) shotgun one-handed with a round chambered, vs. two-handed with the need to rack the action, it is a trade-off: How much time/accuracy do you lose having to aim a shotgun one handed vs. racking the action and aiming with two hands? Here we enter into 'personal preference' territory, with a nod to how each individual trains with their weapon. I train for the latter, mostly because I have more confidence in my ability to succeed with that method. Your Proverbial Mileage May Vary, so be comfortable with what you do, and I'll be happy.

Rich,
My hand won't go that way! I see the weak hand more or less 'cupping' the gun hand. Can you elaborate?

-boing

[This message has been edited by boing (edited February 15, 1999).]

[This message has been edited by boing (edited February 15, 1999).]

 

[Rob Pincus]

Pistol Grip.
God knows if I can shoot at clays one handed I can shoot at BGs inside my house that way too!

If PG isn't an option, single handed shooting is still possible, in the extreme case. Like I said, I'd rather shoot one handed at a BG inside my house than point any kind of gun at my daughter. I get the heebie jeebies sometimes when she hugs my leg under my holstered carry gun, thinking "what if?".....

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-Essayons

 

[boing]

Heebie jeebies indeed! I've experimented this evening with widening the beam on my shotgun light and illuminating rooms with the muzzle held low. It works quite well. Now I can have my weapon mounted light and my cardinal rules, and eat them, too!

Do the clays ever point guns at you?

-boing

 

[Rob Pincus]

I was cut by one that I had wounded at a 5 stand course once...