Want Your Thoughts On Linear comp: BRT or STD.
- Thread starter pilpens
- Start date
I apparently lost track and posted twice. Sorry if that seems too much, I didn't intend to overwhelm the thread.
It's not only the vuurwapen article, tho - others have done comparisons and their bars and graphs show the same. The Battlecomp is more appreciated by those who don't understand graphics apparently. Numbers that rate things and then list them in an order of performance seem to be too difficult to understand.
They didn't all rate the BRT, STD or others all that highly either, which I found disappointing. But, it is what it is - having numbers then lets us know how things stack up and we can then allow reality to intrude with it's distinct ability to correct our hazy and emotional thinking on the subject.
Like those who embrace "Loud Pipes Save Lives!" it's hard to discuss when they are resistant to both logic and actually being able to hear. Being stubborn in the face of the facts isn't something I find admirable. I discovered that when I had to face the fact that the AR15 was actually better than the older "battle rifle" concept and why they were being discarded world wide. So, I "embraced the suck" and discovered I was better off with the 5.56 class of rifle after all.
Comps and brakes are "race car" parts not really meant for everyday use, same as the junk they sell to undereducated hot rodders with no idea they are buying an image and doing nothing to get actual increases in performance. I sell auto parts currently, but with the perspective of over 45 years of being around them, same as I was around military firearms for 22 years in the Reserves. Actually using "high performance" parts has it's ugly downsides and that is never mentioned in the hype and ads. You basically are just moving the physics around to a different part of the operating envelope. It takes something different to actually expand the boundaries, and it's usually something so dirt simple nobody can make a dime on it.
Which is why you see the market filled with comps and brakes touting a minor incremental improvement for a rifle with almost no recoil, and a few linears to sell to those who are looking for a specific way to address a problem where a silencer isn't an option. It takes three rapid shots to pull the sights off an 18MOA target to the 50% hit ratio - which is why HK created the three shot trigger burst. That shows how little we actually need a brake on a 5.56 caliber weapon - and why the military has generally ignored them for the last 45 years.
Goes for a lot of other gadgets sold for the AR - only one is issue in the Marine Corps, all the rest have no NSN or any real enhancement. All those charts and graphs mean something to people who have to make serious decisions.
It's not only the vuurwapen article, tho - others have done comparisons and their bars and graphs show the same. The Battlecomp is more appreciated by those who don't understand graphics apparently. Numbers that rate things and then list them in an order of performance seem to be too difficult to understand.
They didn't all rate the BRT, STD or others all that highly either, which I found disappointing. But, it is what it is - having numbers then lets us know how things stack up and we can then allow reality to intrude with it's distinct ability to correct our hazy and emotional thinking on the subject.
Like those who embrace "Loud Pipes Save Lives!" it's hard to discuss when they are resistant to both logic and actually being able to hear. Being stubborn in the face of the facts isn't something I find admirable. I discovered that when I had to face the fact that the AR15 was actually better than the older "battle rifle" concept and why they were being discarded world wide. So, I "embraced the suck" and discovered I was better off with the 5.56 class of rifle after all.
Comps and brakes are "race car" parts not really meant for everyday use, same as the junk they sell to undereducated hot rodders with no idea they are buying an image and doing nothing to get actual increases in performance. I sell auto parts currently, but with the perspective of over 45 years of being around them, same as I was around military firearms for 22 years in the Reserves. Actually using "high performance" parts has it's ugly downsides and that is never mentioned in the hype and ads. You basically are just moving the physics around to a different part of the operating envelope. It takes something different to actually expand the boundaries, and it's usually something so dirt simple nobody can make a dime on it.
Which is why you see the market filled with comps and brakes touting a minor incremental improvement for a rifle with almost no recoil, and a few linears to sell to those who are looking for a specific way to address a problem where a silencer isn't an option. It takes three rapid shots to pull the sights off an 18MOA target to the 50% hit ratio - which is why HK created the three shot trigger burst. That shows how little we actually need a brake on a 5.56 caliber weapon - and why the military has generally ignored them for the last 45 years.
Goes for a lot of other gadgets sold for the AR - only one is issue in the Marine Corps, all the rest have no NSN or any real enhancement. All those charts and graphs mean something to people who have to make serious decisions.
marine6680
New member
The battle comp does place middle of the pack with recoil and muzzle control performance... But it was billed as a hybrid... Meaning it's good in several areas rather than very good in only one.
That's the idea anyway.
The BCM comp is billed in a similar manner. Basically giving close to standard A2 blast, but better muzzle control. At the expense of added flash.
My fiance can tell the difference and wants one on her rifle as well.
Also, full auto cyclic rates allow rounds to exit the barrel faster, so they exit before recoil from the first shot has moved the muzzle much.
Semi auto fire... You can't pull the trigger fast enough for that effect. So muzzle control is helpful for faster shooting... It works, or competition shooters wouldn't bother.
But their breaks are not suited to the demands and considerations of actual combat use. Which is why the hybrid devices exist.
Don't forget... Many new rifles developed for military use here and in other countries are starting to include some kind of break rather than a dedicated flash hider.
So they have a use, but you need to look at your planned use scenarios and choose accordingly.
Linears are a good solution for SBRs and for general shooter comfort. If that is all you are wanting, then that is what you should get.
That's the idea anyway.
The BCM comp is billed in a similar manner. Basically giving close to standard A2 blast, but better muzzle control. At the expense of added flash.
My fiance can tell the difference and wants one on her rifle as well.
Also, full auto cyclic rates allow rounds to exit the barrel faster, so they exit before recoil from the first shot has moved the muzzle much.
Semi auto fire... You can't pull the trigger fast enough for that effect. So muzzle control is helpful for faster shooting... It works, or competition shooters wouldn't bother.
But their breaks are not suited to the demands and considerations of actual combat use. Which is why the hybrid devices exist.
Don't forget... Many new rifles developed for military use here and in other countries are starting to include some kind of break rather than a dedicated flash hider.
So they have a use, but you need to look at your planned use scenarios and choose accordingly.
Linears are a good solution for SBRs and for general shooter comfort. If that is all you are wanting, then that is what you should get.
Dragline45
New member
tirod said:
That's laughable, let me start off by saying I spent 4 years in college and another 2 years in grad school reading and compiling graphs and charts, not to mention I do so weekly at work, so your comment is ignorant at best. While I am by no means a Battlecomp fanboy, I find it to be a decent comp. I even admitted the main reason I have it on my rifle was because it was an option from the drop down menu when ordering my 14.5" upper from BCM, and by ordering it at that time they would pin and weld it for me before shipping. Will I put one on any of my future AR's? Unless I can find a really good price on one, probably not. Bar graphs and charts don't mean a damn thing to me in effectiveness of a muzzle device, and I don't need to strap electronics to myself or the gun to see how well they work, shooting them are the real test.
tirod said:
Here's this for more ignorance on your part. Some people still live in states that follow the AWB, including myself, which means no flash hiders, and comps/brakes only. So my options are forking over $500 for a pre ban lower that's 20 years old so I can put a $5 flash hider on my rifle, a bare muzzle, which adds absolutely no benefit and an abundance of noise and flash, or a comp, that actually does have some benefit. People who make ignorant statements and jump to conclusions is not something I find admirable, which you have done multiple times in your post.
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marine6680
New member
The fluted version looks pretty good... I gave it serious consideration for my 308.
So it should look good on a rifle.
So it should look good on a rifle.
I like this one. I believe it redirects the noise and blast well. I also think it looks good!
http://www.joeboboutfitters.com/Kaw...near_Comp_1_2x28_Blac_p/kvp-linear223-blk.htm
http://www.joeboboutfitters.com/Kaw...near_Comp_1_2x28_Blac_p/kvp-linear223-blk.htm
- I installed and tested the BRT on my 16" SS 1/8 twist mid-length with 40 rouds of WPA 62 grain ammo (Slow shots)
- Seemed like felt recoil increased a bit. Empty cases seemed to be thrown farther than with A2 birdcage (cases collected approx 20 feet from the bench at 4 o'clock (do not know where it first hit the cement pavement).
- Shot group size did not change.
- POI seems the same (maybe 1" higher at 50 yards - but this could have been me just concentrating more).
- With earmuffs, I could not tell if noise at shooter is less, I just trust it is.
- I plan to test again next week (switching between A2 and BRT to see how felt recoil changes). I will try to pay more attention to where the empties land.
- As I use my carbine now (shooting paper at the range at a bench or standing), I can not say that the change from A2 is worth the price. Still, I enjoy the tinkering (trying to fix something that is not broken, yet).
- I will post pics later.
- Seemed like felt recoil increased a bit. Empty cases seemed to be thrown farther than with A2 birdcage (cases collected approx 20 feet from the bench at 4 o'clock (do not know where it first hit the cement pavement).
- Shot group size did not change.
- POI seems the same (maybe 1" higher at 50 yards - but this could have been me just concentrating more).
- With earmuffs, I could not tell if noise at shooter is less, I just trust it is.
- I plan to test again next week (switching between A2 and BRT to see how felt recoil changes). I will try to pay more attention to where the empties land.
- As I use my carbine now (shooting paper at the range at a bench or standing), I can not say that the change from A2 is worth the price. Still, I enjoy the tinkering (trying to fix something that is not broken, yet).
- I will post pics later.
Initial Test: the carbine had an ST-T2 buffer.
- Current setup: 16" SS midlength with ST-T3 buffer + the BRT linear comp.
- Fired another 40 rounds of WPA 62 grain with no issues.
- The carbine functioned smoother with the ST-T3 than with the ST-T2 buffer. It seemed to have less felt recoil and the ejected cases only went to approx 10 feet at 4 o'clock.
- I am happy with the BRT. So, I opted to not try the birdcaged anymore on this carbine.
- I am tempted to get another BRT for my 20" AR.
- Current setup: 16" SS midlength with ST-T3 buffer + the BRT linear comp.
- Fired another 40 rounds of WPA 62 grain with no issues.
- The carbine functioned smoother with the ST-T3 than with the ST-T2 buffer. It seemed to have less felt recoil and the ejected cases only went to approx 10 feet at 4 o'clock.
- I am happy with the BRT. So, I opted to not try the birdcaged anymore on this carbine.
- I am tempted to get another BRT for my 20" AR.
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