Uvalde After Action Report

ALERRT is the official DOJ/FBI active shooter training program. The ALERRT team has prepared a critique of the response in the Uvalde school shooting incident:

https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/22080543-texas-alerrt-report-on-uvalde-response

I've read most of the report. While I am in agreement that there was barely-controlled chaos on the scene, I nonetheless find some aspects of the report to be nothing more than Monday morning quarterbacking. YMMV.

https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/22080543-texas-alerrt-report-on-uvalde-response
 

TunnelRat

New member
I read through it. I don’t find it to be overly Monday morning quarterbacking. I’m not sure how much of it can be applied to civilian applications.


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reynolds357

New member
The response to the active shooter was horrid. They failed in every way. Anyone that held any decision making rank should be fired.I believe the incident commander should be charged with negligent homicide, or whatever Texas calls their version of that law.
 
I've read most of the report. While I am in agreement that there was barely-controlled chaos on the scene, I nonetheless find some aspects of the report to be nothing more than Monday morning quarterbacking. YMMV.

Yeah, there will always be differences of opinions on various aspects after the fact. That seems pretty typical.

Barely controlled chaos seems like a compliment. I don't think law enforcement controlled much of anything other than being sure that nobody tried to stop the shooter and many didn't even seem particularly engaged with the situation.

There are a lot of lessons to be taken from this video.

There are a lot of lessons to learn from the video. Sadly, many or most of those lessons were already supposed to be known or understood.
 

raimius

New member
Agree with most of the Field craft Survival video comments.
This was a HUGE failure to take proper actions. Columbine was over 20years ago. They knew better, but failed to act. The lack of leadership and simple drive to do something was profound. You can see it in their body language. They are standing around. Only one guy tried to advance multiple times, but he got no support from his fellow officers and gave up after 3-4 tries.
 

RC20

New member
What small town police department can afford to have well trained officers for responding to situation like this?

I was on the edge of an 500 person event some years back. My end was just to stand a fire watch and activate sections of the sprinkler system if things got out of hand fire wise (the facility was not intended for the kind of function they put it to)

There was reports of the event being infiltrated by a local nut job (yes I knew her and she was nuts and spent time in Federal Prison latter on)

The event organizers view was, any problems and we just call the Swat team.

The company security guy was a former Police department lieutenant. He proceeded to tell the event people them in no uncertain terms it would take a Swat team 45 minutes to respond at best. The event people were "borrowing" the facility and company security was not armed (nor trained in force issues)

45 minutes was best case to get Swat on location, then per their protocol at the time, it was a carefully check to see what they were dealing with.

He told them if they wanted as secure an event as possible, they needed to have security in the event. This was a Police department of 300,000 people roughly.
 
RC20 said:
What small town police department can afford to have well trained officers for responding to situation like this?
What police department today doesn't have a SWAT team?

My town's population is about 10,000. Our police department has 26 sworn officers, eight full-time civilian employees, and one part-time civilian employee. Our town cooperates with the neighboring town to the south (slightly larger population) for a joint SWAT team. The town to the immediate west has a population of about 16,000. Their police department has 41 sworn officers and their own SWAT team.

Uvalde reportedly has a SWAT team (the city's police department, not the Consolidated School District police department). Supposedly the school district PD and the city PD had just gone through an active shooter drill just a couple of months before the incident.
 

shafter

New member
Many departments, especially in rural areas don't have SWAT teams and many of the teams that do exist aren't always very capable.

Now that the dust has settled and more information has come out I'm willing to state that I believe the situation was handled terribly.

One thing to remember though is information is critical. Not information that comes out later but the information that each officer has at the time. In an event like that comms are going to be an absolute disaster. People will be walking all over each other's radio traffic and there will be alot of conflicting directions and false information. There isn't much that can be done to prevent that. It's just the nature of the beast.

However, when you have a SWAT problem, but don't have time to wait for SWAT, you need to make sure that every officer has the skills to be able to work either alone or with a small group of fellow officers, perhaps from different agencies to solve that problem. More tools and more training is the answer. It isn't enough to preach active shooter doctrine. If you expect people to go into a room after an armed shooter they need the skill and the tools to be able to actually do it.
 
shafter said:
It isn't enough to preach active shooter doctrine. If you expect people to go into a room after an armed shooter they need the skill and the tools to be able to actually do it.
That's the purpose of conducting active shooter drills -- which Uvalde supposedly had done just a couple of months before the incident.

I don't know if Uvalde qualifies as "rural." Uvalde itself is classified as a city, not a town. It's a small city -- the population of the city itself was 15,111 in 2022. It's also the county seat of Uvalde County. The population of the Uvalde metropolitan area was 26,649 in 2021. The Uvalde Police Department has 37 full-time sworn officers, 3 part-time sworn officers, 10 full-time civilian employees, and 4 part-time civilian employees.
 

shafter

New member
One or two "drills" which probably take place once a year at the very most, more likely every couple years, aren't even close to being sufficient for preparing someone to run into a school against an armed killer of unknown skill while surrounded by innocent children and teachers.

I've been a part of those drills and they typically serve to show everyone just how jacked up they all are. There are even the jokes during training that if it happens for real "we're screwed."

Cops aren't being trained on how to navigate stairwells or properly clear down a hallway or enter a room either alone or as a small team. If the shooter is inside a locked room the officers don't have the tools or know-how to breach the door. So many times officers will leave their patrol rifle behind when going indoors because it's too unwieldy and gets in the way indoors because they don't know how to run it other than on a flat range.

Don't even get me started on physical fitness. A minute or two of exertion plus adrenaline and half the guys are out of the fight whether they like it or not.

Law enforcement needs real training and they need to do it frequently. One or two exercises a year are useless if there isn't technical training between exercises. There are usually a handful of real bad dudes in every department but the bulk of them are no good in a situation like that.

Will without skill is just as useless as skill without will. Cops. Need. To. Train. More.
 
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TunnelRat

New member
At some level the occupation is a function of will, as you yourself said, and while you keep mentioning skill I don’t see an abundance of will. Skill without will is equally as problematic as will without skill; I’d argue more so.

I attend ~ 4 training courses a year for a total of 36 now. I’ve had instructors that were former law enforcement, former special operations from different U.S. military branches. In those courses I see private citizens and former and active law enforcement. I’m all for training and have no problem paying for it in terms of tax dollars. I can tell you that in all the instructors I’ve had most will tell you that instructing law enforcement is like herding cats. Many of the officers that are there are there as a function of a department choice and not their own desire. In those cases from what I’ve been told a major concern of those officers is when is lunch and how long is it. As a counter to this, the officers with which I’ve attended courses who paid out of their own pockets (they do get notably reduced tuition costs) were as invested in the material as most of the private citizens, some much more so. I’m not sure how you overcome a lack of interest or will. I can make someone sit through a course and that person might get nothing out.

I also don’t know how to quantify what is “enough” training, for lack of a better world. I have done a number of courses at this point. I would still describe myself as “Intermediate” and when I take courses now I generally still get something out of each course. In addition to this, techniques change over time. I’ve seen it in just my years of training with regards to use of lights and I have talked to officers of varying ages and they have seen tactics and techniques change as well. Defining a set number of courses that means a person is ready to risk their life in defense of others seems nearly impossible, and to a point self defeating. Training is something you want to keep doing.

In an ideal world all officers would be excellently trained, in good physical fitness, know the layout of the building, the list goes on. We don’t live in an ideal world. At Uvalde children were being executed. Standing by while that happened is unforgivable, imo, training or no, and being willing to do that for the length of time at question here is to me emblematic of a problem that goes a lot deeper than lack of training.


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shafter

New member
With Uvalde it appears that there was no will and no skill either. It was the ultimate failure. The security video shows a bunch of guys standing around looking completely bewildered as to what to do. They don't even look scared, they look bored. BORTAC eventually went in and took care of business but it's my understanding that they took awhile to make a move as well although I imagine that by the time they got on scene there was a lot of conflicting information as to what the situation was.
 

Electrod47

New member
This all happened in MY TEXAS, home of legendary lawman history. Not anymore. They have forever tarnished that image. " One Riot, One Ranger" Yeah, My**s.
Every name and face needs to be put out there for everyone to see. Gallons of innocent blood demands it. "Lack of training???Didn't know who was in charge???They were standing in an Elementary School surrounded by finger painting pictures taped to walls on a class is in session day. And nobody was obliged to stick their precious neck out for an innocent child. God in heaven. I'm done.
 

Doc Intrepid

New member
With respect to all here, I don't disagree with any comments posted in the thread.

It is germane, though, to note how many LEOs have shot criminals and lost their careers, received death threats, been forced to relocate, and have faced financial ruin in legal fees over the past three or four years. This has occurred despite the shootings being prima facie righteous, and having been proven legitimate in post-incident investigations. Darren Wilson was cleared of wrong-doing in the shooting of Michael Brown in Ferguson, MS by a Grand Jury -- and was still fired, received death threats, and had to relocate to a different state to find safety in anonymity. For doing his job - doing the right thing.

What has resulted is a type of learned helplessness, where doing nothing is safer than doing anything later perceived (by activists) to be incorrect or socially insensitive -- even if it is the right thing.

One item emphasized in the analyses is a glaring lack of initiative.

But LEOs today often function in a world where initiative is punished harshly.

I don't excuse their inactivity, but I suspect reality as it has evolved over the past several years may have played some role in the hesitation that was exhibited on so many levels that day.
 

shafter

New member
But LEOs today often function in a world where initiative is punished harshly.
/QUOTE]

This is very true. The quote "no good deed goes unpunished" gets floated around alot in agencies. I've suspected for awhile now that law enforcement hiring processes deliberately weed out warrior minded people. What agencies want are reasonably smart people, but not too smart because then you might ask uncomfortable questions. If you keep fit you make the fat guys look bad and since the fat guys are usually in charge this is bad. If you push for more training this is also bad because training leads to increased skill and knowledge and you mustn't know more than the folks in charge.

Agencies want agreeable worker bees who will go out and do the day to day job without a fuss. The typical traffic stop, or domestic violence incident, or OUI investigation doesn't really require anything that the average person isn't capable of doing.

I've seen it and lived it first hand. The good guys get disgruntled and leave which leaves the barely adequate ones to rise to command positions.
Cops are being hired to do the job they will do 99 percent of the time with no regard to the 1 percent crisis that separates the men from the boys. If there is ever a tactically proficient active shooter it will be a bad day.
 
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