Use what type of scale?

[snuffy]

I voted digital only. I bought a RCBS powder pro back in '98. At first I checked it against my balance beam ohaus, got tired of it always checking out the same. I then borrowed the BB to a buddy so he could get started loading. I have a lee BB around somewhere, never use it.

I also have a Lyman check weight set. If I use it, and they weigh---(no "t") the same each time, it must be right on,,,-right? If I then weigh---(no "t") powder on it, then the powder weigh(no "T")s the correct weight.

If, for some reason, you don't trust digital/electronic scales, then don't buy one. But don't come right out and say they're no good. Or falsely claim they're not faster or aren't accurate. Now, some of the 29 dollar battery operated junk on fleabay are seldom any good.

 

[snuffy]

Oh, one thing I forgot-----do any of you KNOW your scale is on a level surface? How about is it isolated from the bench vibrations? Is it exposed to drafts, AC/heating ducts, or electronic fields,(in the case of an electronic/digital scale)?

Having it off level, or subject to constant vibration is as bad as not using a scale at all. It's simple to make a separate platform with leveling screws, then check it with a good spirit level and set it. THEN don't move it without re-leveling it.

While gravity is pretty constant, having gravity acting at an angle to a scale results in errors.

Vibration will eventually act to dull the knife edges on a beam scale. No matter if the "V" blocks are some sort of hard rock,(agate-quartz), the knife edges are steel.

 

[FlyFish]

While gravity is pretty constant, having gravity acting at an angle to a scale results in errors.

That may be a problem for electronic scales (may be - I'm not sure), but it's not an issue for balance beam scales. The beam is "level" by definition when the scale is zeroed and will return to the same position, relative to the earth, regardless of how the base of the scale is moved. Zeroing the scale has the effect of removing any bias introduced by the base potentially not being level.

But don't take my word for it. Put your BB scale on what appears to be a level surface, zero it, and weigh an object. Then prop up one end or the other so it's obviously not level and zero it again (obviously, you can't have it so far off that you're outside of its zeroing range), then weigh the same object. You'll get the same result.

 

[FrankenMauser]

Snuffy was referring to the other axis of the scale, for balance beams. Your "standard" axis is the Z axis, for zeroing the scale. However, if it is also out of level in the X axis, it causes drag on parts of the scale that should not be touching.

I ran a fairly involved test a few years ago**, to see just how much I should trust my balance beam scale. With a 15 degree tilt (top of the scale leaned towards me, with the standard axis zeroed), the 5-0-5 was off by 4+ grains with a weight of 55.5 gr selected on the scale. (55.5 is arbitrary, but was selected so the "tens", "ones", and "tenths" were all used. However, 55.5 gr is a good average for the range of max loads in several cartridges I load.)
Most upsetting, was that the reading was not repeatable. I got different (bad) results with each attempt.


**Some of you may remember my post about the various accuracy tests and per-tenth-of-a-grain deflection of the RCBS 5-0-5, from 2.0 gr through 400 gr. I can't find the original post. I must have titled it oddly, and used different language in describing the tests.
I know most reloaders think that kind of testing is a complete waste of time. I did it, because I wanted to know how the scale reacted in different weight "regimes", and how it reacted to different variables. My background is in aerospace. Nearly every tool we used was calibrated on a monthly, quarterly, semi-annual, or annual basis. If a tool experienced shock, vibration, or contamination, it was recalibrated or replaced. Yet, reloaders assume their scales will remain perfectly calibrated for life.

 

[Darren007]

Depending on what I'm loading I'll use either dippers or an electronic scale.

When I'm loading handgun rounds and using the powder dispenser I check the first 10 rounds and then only the 10th round after that with an electronic scale.

 

[snuffy]

Snuffy was referring to the other axis of the scale, for balance beams. Your "standard" axis is the Z axis, for zeroing the scale. However, if it is also out of level in the X axis, it causes drag on parts of the scale that should not be touching.

Thanks Frank, there ARE two axis to being level. Why not have both level, then you know for sure there's no off center force on the beam, or plenum of a digital.

Take a level to whatever base your scale sits on, first along the length of the scale, then at 90 degrees to that. Both should be in the center of the glass.

 

[dmazur]

I use a RCBS 1010, after having trouble with an unstable transducer in a RCBS electronic scale.

My reloading bench is level enough and flat enough that I can put the scale anywhere and have it provide accurate and repeatable measurements, after zeroing.

I use a powder measure and check the charge weight every box, when I pause to label things. This turns out to be every 50 for pistol and every 20 for rifle.

The powder measures have a Unitek micrometer knob, and I use the value I recorded in my reloading spreadsheet to set it up when trying to duplicate a load. It doesn't elminate the need to check the weight of the charge, but it makes getting to the desired weight a lot faster.

 

[zippy13]

Another 20+ year 10•10 balance scale user.

 

[Mauser Rat]

Good Question.......

I use both depending on what I am doing. Extruded Powder? Volume can be pretty variable and I have seen several grain swings when I weigh the "dipper". At or near "never exceed"? I use both and frequently but still trust the BB most. Spherical powder like AA #2? The 550B just throws it the same every time and I can sleep very well firing that load without stopping to test every fifth case. Then I check every box load or when I have to get up and make sure my heart is still beating.

I have an Ohaus electronic 2100 gram laboratory scale but one day I noticed that it only reports grains to the nearest 0.2 interval and flickers back and forth between two readings when it is unhappy. When you are near a Maximum and using extruded powder? Balance beam is what I trust the most because of that gravity thing that Snuffy mentioned. When I am setting the powder throw? Measure every case until you can sleep well and then, after that, check them when the hair stands up on the back of your neck.

I wonder if anybody ever asks a surgeon what scalpel he/she always uses? I hope that he/she would say whichever gets the job done the best measured by patient survival? When I am loading 44 grains of powder for a rifle load then I want to avoid having to talk to that surgeon and I measure often and do whatever puts my mind at rest.

Did any of you see the pictures of that M1 Garand after eating some bad powder that someone here posted a few weeks ago? I don't want to go there and I still can not believe that no one got seriously hurt or lost an eye or something with all of that pointy, sharp wood and steel flying around.

 

[Roaddog]

RCBS 502 beam scale. I check evry 10 rounds. So far so good.

 

[Smaug]

I voted volume only

But in reality, I weigh charges for rifle ammo. Balance beam scale; just the simple Lee one.

For handgun ammo, I've weighed charges a few times, and find they always come in just under what they're supposed to. I think the volume calculations always account for a heaping helping of powder, or a slightly compressed charge.

 

[Civil War Life]

4. Electronic scale primarily balance beam to verify

I weigh every powder charge with an electronic scale checking every 10th charge with my balance bean scale.

 

[serf 'rett]

Balance beamer is all I've got. Pistol only thus far.
Weight and trickle every one of the suckers when working up test loads. Weight every tenth otherwise.

 

[riche]

I use 2 balance beam scales,side by side, one is an Ohaus magnetic dampening, the other a redding oil dampening scale. When I'm setting up my powder measure, I check on one, then recheck on the other, that way I know I set the charge weights right on the scales, sometimes its hard to see the tiny marks. Anyways when they're both set up and agreeing with each other, I start filling empty cases, I weigh each charge, draw a charge from powder measure, dump in one scale, draw another charge, dump in other scale, by then first scale has stopped moving, if its good to go, I dump in empty case. Otherwise I add or remove until its level. I find its much quicker using the 2 scales, and each charge is accurately weighed. Works good for me.

 

[mehavey]

With a 15 degree tilt (top of the scale leaned towards me, with the standard axis zeroed)...

I assume you mean the scale was zero'd end-to-end (as normally done) but the whole apparatus tilted sideways toward you?

Part 1:
I admit that I'd expect the axis bearing surface to be a bit "scruffy and draggy", but I'm surprised that it introduced an actual bias. Why do you think that happened?

Part 2:
For myself, I use the RCBS Chargemaster 98% of the time -- left "ON" and calibrated with check weights before every session. (No appreciable drift so far -- remarkable). Whenever I get paranoid I pull out my Texan Balance

 

[FrankenMauser]

I assume you mean the scale was zero'd end-to-end (as normally done) but the whole apparatus tilted sideways toward you?

Yes. It was properly zeroed (before, and while it was titled). Having the weight on the beam far from the poise just made it unstable. Without 55.5 gr in the scale pan, the beam would drag on the guide at the left side of the scale (sighting piece, I believe is the proper term ?). With the addition of weight in the scale pan, the poise was dragging and the beam was dragging on the guide (near side, and/or far side).

I think the reason it was such an issue, is that the 5-0-5 and 5-0-2 scales don't have fixed bearing blocks. The blocks are free floating, under their retaining plates, to allow self-alignment as they wear. If the scale is out of level, the free-floating bearing blocks allow the beam to move around, and drag on parts of the base the beam is not supposed to touch.

 

[Jim243]

Started 7 years ago with a balance beam scale, still have it, but changed over to a RCBS 1500 4 years ago and only use the balance beam once a month to double check the electronic.

For rifle the 1500 measures the charge each and ever time, on pistol I use a powder dispenser on the press and check the charge on the electronic once every 20 loads or so.

Jim

 

[hunter52]

I use RCBS 505 and 502 scales ,sometimes ,if I am being particular I will use both at the same time,checking one against the other. For handgun loads using the Projector I will check every fifth round.

 

[wncchester]

"However, if it is also out of level in the X axis, it causes drag on parts of the scale that should not be touching."

It's important that the X axis (Z actually) be at least close to level but 'eye ball' level is plenty good enough. It's obviously important that the beam's axle be centered fore and aft so one end won't rub on a bearing retainer clip but that's simple enough to keep visual track of.