US seen unfavorably by Arab (Surprise!)

pax

New member
I read the article. It's hard to care, but the implication is that we should.

So?

pax

We are so vain that we even care for the opinion of those we don't care for. -- Marie Ebner von Eschenbach
 

Byron

New member
Irritating, especially our low approval among Kuwaitis.

But you have to remember that a lot of these folks can't read, and even those that can get their information from government-controlled newspapers, TV, and radio. Given that, plus the crap they are taught in their schools, it would be a miracle if they had a favorable opinion of the U.S.
 

pawcatch

New member
Zeke,most of "they' had nothing to do with the attacks.
That poll included people from several countries that the terrorists didn't come from.
 

gdw

New member
Turn it around. Our opinion of Arabs isn't probably all that high anytime. In general, do we want them all dead? More than likely not.

Same probably holds for 95% of them...

They don't like us, so what? We don't like them much either...

I can live with that.

But start killing americans and you "should*" get a visit by emmissaries of the DoD.

(* = Depending on the administration :rolleyes: )
 

Malone LaVeigh

New member
Twenty-eight percent of Kuwaitis, ... 16 percent of Saudi Arabians... had a favorable view of the United States.

I find this highly ironic. Maybe they somehow perceive that our war over there wasn't really about helping the people of those countries, only their ruling elites and our own business interests.
 

pawcatch

New member
They totally think that we were over there for our own interests,but I would guess that's how any poor person from an under developed country thinks.

The fact is that Americans are not so well loved through out the world.
I honestly don't see the problem in that.
 

Skorzeny

New member
This is another reason why we NEED an Office of Strategic Influence.

Having lived overseas a long time, I can tell you that a lot of our "good work" goes unnoticed overseas. Many repressive governments try their best to steer domestic discontent away from the corrupt elites toward "America."

This is not to suggest that we're all Snow Whites overseas. Some behaviors of our expatriates and tourists often alienate foreigners and provide ammunition for those who'd paint us as "the ugly Americans."

Stereotypical perceptions go both ways. For example, I often hear outrage from my fellow Americans about the antics of foreign diplomats in the US (drunk-driving, for example). The media are often silent, though, when these diplomats are punished.

What we don't often hear in the US media is what "our" folks do overseas. In one country I lived, a couple of our shinning American boys (children of our diplomats) shot a pregnant woman in the belly with a BB gun, resulting in a spontaneous mis-carriage! And they got away with it! That's the kind of a thing that gives us the reputation as "imperialistic, arrogant" people.

Skorzeny
 

Smoker

New member
Why do you find this to be such a surprise?

Even if the Americans were saints (which you aren't, just human) there would still be resentment. Everyone is always resentful of the top dog no matter if it's a schoolyard, the star of the local sports team, the rich guy in the big house, the beautiful girl getting the attention etc. The Arab and Muslim opinion being presented is only evidence that they are human and thus prone to human weakness like jealousy etc as the rest of us.

The Arabs were one of the most advanced cultures and societies on the planet and in the last five hundred years have fallen a long way {no renaissance and the religious fundamentalists in power) so it's natural that the "average" Arab is going to resent who ever replaced them at the top of the pyramid. Before the US became a superpower the Arabs resented the Europeans. So don't take it so personal. If Iceland was at the top they would be resented by both Arabs and Americans.

The Arabs and Iranians do have some reasons to be pissed off. America supports family run dictatorships all over the Middle East that treat their own people like crap. The Americans didn't take care of that nut Saddam Hussain when it was easy to do so and instead left the nut running around the neighbourhood scaring everybody. The Americans let the Afghans do the dirty work with the Russians and after the wall came tumbling down the Afghan role as cannon fodder in the cold war was forgotten. This post is not American bashing it's just to point out that their resentment is not completely spontaneous. America is not perfect when it comes to foreign policy and as the top dog is maybe even held to higher moral standards than human beings should be but still when it seems to you the top dog is keeping the dictator with a boot on your face in power people can get pretty resentful.

I don't want this to sound racist but it is a common characteristic for the ME and Islam to blame anyone but themselves for the problems they currently face. When I lived in Dubai I heard a thousand conspiracy theories from Saddam Hussain is a CIA agent kept in place so the west can sell weapons, to there is a room full of Jews with computers in Cyprus (why Cyprus I don't know) who are controlling the world.

There are more than a few Arabs that still think Sept 11th was a plot by Mossad to discredit the Muslims and Israel was actually behind attacks. The Egyptian lawyer of Mohamed Atta still won't admit his son was a mass murderer but blames Mossad for framing his son as the mastermind. This characteristic is their problem and not one that will be fixed anytime soon so you are just going to have to live with it. If America stopped supporting ME dictators it would go a long way to bringing them over from the "dark" side of denial.

Not all of "THEM" are crazy. The following is from a Pakistani businessman Izzat Majeed from the Pakistani Daily The Nation:

"We Muslims cannot keep blaming the West for all our ills. … The embarrassment of wretchedness among us is beyond repair. It is not just the poverty, the illiteracy and the absence of any commonly accepted social contract that define our sense of wretchedness; it is, rather the increasing awareness among us that we have failed as a civil society by not confronting the historical, social and political demons within us. … Without a reformation in the practice of I'Slam that makes it move forward and not backward there is not hope for us Muslims anywhere. We have reduced Islam to the organised hypocrisy of state-sponsored mullahism. For more than a thousand years Islam has stood still because of the mullahs, who became de facto clergy instead of genuine scholars, closed the door on 'ijtehan' {reinterpreting Islam in light of modernity} and no one came forward with an evolving application of the message of the holy Quran. All that mullahs tell you today is how to go back a thousand years. We have not been able to evolve a dynamic practice to bring Islam to the people in the language of their own specific era. … Oxford and Cambridge were the 'madrasas' {religious schools} of Christendom in the 13th century. Look where they are today - among the leading institutions of education in the world. Where are our institutions of learning?"

{Mr. Majeed then finishes by addressing bin Laden directly} "The last thing Muslims need is the growing darkness of your caves. … Holy Prophet Muhammad on returning from a battle said: 'We return from little Jihad to greater Jihad.' True Jihad today is not in the hijacking of planes, but in the manufacturing of them."

End.

They are not all crazy and they are not all resentful but it is a problem just like the American foreign policy of not supporting democratic regimes is a problem. Hopefully the road to recovery will start with the American military going in and crushing Saddam Hussain ASAP.

Cheers Smoker
 

Smoker

New member
Hi Skorzeny,

You came up when I was posting, what time zone are you in or do you have a night job?

Skorzeny quote: "I can tell you that a lot of our "good work" goes unnoticed overseas. Many repressive
governments try their best to steer domestic discontent away from the corrupt elite's toward "America.""

The US State Department has the worse public relations in the world. No matter what America does foreign aid wise or what ever they manage to screw up getting the message to the local population. I swear it is because of the experts" teaching Middle East studies in the States. They really should get out of the classrooms and diplomatic parties and go in country and find out what is going on.

Cheers Smoker
 

Skorzeny

New member
The US State Department has the worse public relations in the world.
Not to mention, until very recently, the most antiquated and worst IT system I've ever seen. With all the top-of-the-world PR and IT resources we have at our disposal (not to mention the incredibly cultured and educated people who pass the FSO exams), it amazes and depresses me that our government's efforts overseas are so so sad.
You came up when I was posting, what time zone are you in or do you have a night job?
Not that it's any of your business, but I travel a lot and post from different time zones frequently.

I will say that the TFL is a most addicting hobby for me. Sometimes, I gotta be careful because it might affect my work.

Skorzeny
 

MuzzleBlast

New member
Nietche was right.

We don't do good works in other countries without expecting something in return. The people in Persian Gulf nations should count themselves lucky. In the not to distant past, a power such as the US would have just taken their land and waged a campaign of genocide on any people who were thoughtless enough to live in an area where there was something we needed. It is a cold hard fact of life that might makes right, and right now the might belongs to us. Any other nation that is not strong enough to stand against us keeps their national sovereignty only at our whim. So basically they should just shut up and give us the oil already.
 

Skorzeny

New member
It is a cold hard fact of life that might makes right, and right now the might belongs to us.
"The world is thus." "No, thus we have made the world."

Okay, anyone who can tell me what film that line comes from wins the prize! :)

Skorzeny
 

Fred Hansen

New member
Skor,

The Mission w/ Jeremy Irons. You wouldn't happen to know the name of the piece of music used for the final scene, would you?
 

ngnrnlo

New member
jmbg29

the name of the music is "nella fantasia." I don't know where it comes from, but I have a Sarah Brightman CD that includes that tune as a song.
 
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