US Army sees urgent need for 'longer-range' infantry weapon

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SR420

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Davis

The m14 did fail as a general issue select fire rifle. The attempt at making it fill all roles was a bad one.
That is not to say the M14 is a bad rifle. It is not. But the fact remains that it failed in its intended role.

Not to take away from any of the shooters, but if more of them had the chance to get familiar with the M14 and get a better
feel for how it fired it would not have been a failure. Many that kept and used them in Vietnam learned them and found the M14
very controllable in FA with just a little trigger control. The fact remains that marksmanship training and weapon familiarity are
extremely important no matter what the weapon is.
 

Art Eatman

Staff in Memoriam
Absent a mass charge, generally, you don't blaze away with a full-auto weapon. Light .30 or BAR or whatever, it's something on the order of a "Fire a burst of six," as they taught us in Basic. That held for my quad-fifty halftrack in Korea, as well. Save the barrel; don't run your idiot butt out of ammo.

The M16 problem is the high cyclic rate, which is why the three-shot burst deal was dreamed up.

The BAR and the air-cooled .30 MGs worked well to anchor a line, and were light enoough to be portable in an advance. The light .30s could cover an advance, with the BAR carried along during the effort.

All that worked well until the jungles of Vietnam, when a totally different set of tactics became necessary. And now, back to open-country warfare in the middle east, other sorts of weapons are needed. At present there is more need for a mix, depending on the specific mission.

Which as usual supports my oft-repeated statement that there is no such thing as "One size fits all."
 

Jimro

New member
When I had to carry a SAW and 800 rounds of linked 5.56 I still considered myself lucky that I wasn't carrying 800 rounds of 7.62. Every hundred rounds of 7.62 is about 5 pounds.

Our doctrine of Fire and Maneuver requires a lot of Fire to facilitate the maneuver portion. Trying to stretch out a basic load of 7.62 between your platoon machine guns any longer than 10 minutes on a support by fire line is a real tough act to pull off.

If our next engagement is with a modern, well equipped foe we'll want the number of bullets afforded by the 5.56 to effectively fight.

Jimro
 

King Ghidora

Moderator
One of the main complaints about the BAR was that it didn't have any way of swapping out the barrel if it became overheated. You just had to wait until it cooled off and in battle you don't want to be waiting around whether you're covering an advance or participating in it.

The BAR was actually conceived as a machine gun that could be carried in an advance on enemy trenches in WWI. There were plans for a belt that held multiple mags that soldiers could use to carry a lot more ammo. Also I thought one of the main reasons for the small mag was that it was easier to shoot from a foxhole because a longer mag meant you needed a deeper hole to keep the gun (and your head) from being rasied up so high. I know my SKS with the banana clips becomes a lot harder to handle when trying just to shoot from a rest. A smaller mag makes it much easier to find a good rest to shoot from. Imagine what it would be like trying to find a hole deep enough to keep a 30 round mag of 30 caliber ammo down below the rim of a foxhole.
 

Bart Noir

New member
King, there was "a belt that held multiple mags that soldiers could use to carry a lot more ammo". I have seen them for sale at gun shows. It looks like the M1 Garand ammo belt but with fewer pouches, those pouches being larger in size.

Some countries did use a heavy barrel version of the FAL, with a bipod and a 30 round magazine. And the magazine was almost to the ground, as you say.

Bart Noir
 

44 AMP

Staff
Standards change over the years, but some things don't

So it pays to remember history. The military always learns from history, but sometimes they don't learn the right lesson, or learn it fast enough. And sometimes, they do, but cannot implement the lesson learned against the political master of the pocketbook that they work for.

The "economy" required by governments (especially democracies) on military weapons is responsible for the majority of their failures, often costing servicemen's lives in the process.

Note that JM Browning designed the BAR virtually overnight (in terms of design time, compared to mnost other guns), AND he gave it to the US govt for a pittance (virtually free, he took the govt's first lowball offer), his only request was that the first guns go to his son Val's unit (and those like them) in France.

Our govt has a long history of not giving our troops the best weapons possible, but of giving them the cheapest best weapons practical. There have been notable exceptions, but generally this has been the rule up until fairly recently. And there is still a strong predisposition to choose the cheapest route if possible. We have a huge investment in the M16 rifle system, and we will not replace it with anthing less than a quantum leap forward in technology (the ray gun in some form). We might eventually adopt a more effective cartridge than the 5.56mm, but only if it works in an M16 reciever. There is no getting around that in the real world. Some variant of the M16 will remain the standard infantry rifle for the forseeable future.

But the M14 (in some variation) has a place as well, and it is good that the military (particularly the Army) is remembering it. Since the end of WWII, the military has been obsessed with the idea that there is a single "best" thing for all situations. Gun, tank, plane, rifle, etc. Standardization is great, it is useful, it is cheapest, and if numbers are the most important thing (ahead of performance) it is the way to go. (think Sherman tank), but if performace is critical, then there is no single "best" for all situations. One size may fit all, but one size fits almost nobody perfectly!

During WWII we used HMGs, LMGs, SMGs, rifles, and carbines, and all had their benefits and drawbacks. Today we have combined the SMG, rifle, and carbine, and to an extent the LMG as well. The compromise works well for a lot of things, but there are still situations where dedicated specific designs work better. An M14 isn't the best thing for walking a jungle trail, or clearing houses, and an assault rifle/smg isn't the best thing for potting the bad guys at extended range. Our sons (and daughters) need, and deserve both, and in useful amounts. And they need and deserve the training to be able to make the most of them. These lessons have been learned before, and paid for in our blood. Why do we have to relearn them again and again?
 
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