I own a number of Remington bolt rifles: 700s, 600, 660 in numberous calibers but fortunately never had an AD occur. It only takes one for a tragedy to happen. I am going to take my rifles to my 'smith and have him thoroughly clean and check the trigger mechanisms with this problem in mind. I usually don't have trigger jobs done on my guns unless the pulls are way out of normal--and I don't ever go super light when I do. This may be a small percentage of Remingtons that malfunction but I'm going to be proactive.
Unsafe Trigger System In Reminton 700 Rifles
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Businesses settle meritless court cases all the time. It is a business decision based on the fact the settling generally costs less than defending themselves, even if they win. Lawyers and litigation is expensive.Double Naught Spy said:
The only "expert" they contacted is a professional plaintiff's witness for ambulance chasers. If you watch the Remington rebuttal to the CNBC piece, thy show the same expert state under oath that it was only a theory, and he had never been able to actually get it to happen. The "Remington Insider" they showed worked at an ammunition plant, and had nothing to do with firearms.
They show some video of some unknown dude in generic Camo with a black ball cap and blurred face with a clearly unsafe rifle, but no information on the condition of the rifle, what had been done to it, or what the Remington found when they inspected it, (which they probably didn't, because it was most likely not in the condition it left the factory).
Any nitwit with a jewelers screwdriver could probably make their gun do the same thing, that does not automatically make it Remington's fault.
Even if the trigger really was defective, all of the injuries could have been avoided had the owners practiced basic firearms safety and gun handling.Double Naught Spy said:
Double Naught Spy said:
The whole interview, all Walker really said was he advocated for a firing pin block on the safety, and Remington did not do it because of cost.
The Walker interview portion is here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iis8nxGl-hQ
CNBC said:
Well, not exactly. They showed 3 memos from when he worked at Remington, all are posted online.
The first advocates adding a trigger block to the safety, and what that would involve, in the manufacturing process:
http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/CNBC/Se...Remington_Under_Fire/Documents/Rem_Doc_09.pdf
They also say that the cost would be 5 1/2 cents per gun, which is certainly minimal, but unit cost and the cost of making the change are not the same thing. They do not mention tooling and setup costs, and depending on where they were in the design/manufacturing process, this could be a substantial setup cost.
I agree that a trigger block is a good thing to have on a safety, but that does not mean that a safety without a trigger block is unsafe.
The memo they show like it is some sort of smoking gun:
The memo they show in the piece is here.CNBC said:
Yeah, he did. Which HE FIXED. The last line of the memo says "this change will be incorporated in the drawing as soon as tool procurement is completed" Now why wouldn't they mention that?
The third they show in the "he repeatedly..." section isn't even from Walker, it is signed by a guy named Leek, and all it says is some parts were out of "out of design limits".
http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/CNBC/Se...Remington_Under_Fire/Documents/Rem_Doc_03.pdf
It does not say the out of design parts were used, or what was done with the information.
Right, because rocket engines are a much more fair representation of an actual auto accident.Double Naught Spy said:
NBC has a record of playing pretty loose with the facts when it comes to firearms.
http://www.nraila.org/138269
I just assume at this point anything they say is BS.
Well before the documentary, a Graybeard I know told me that way back in the early 50's, two hardware store new Rem 721's fired into the floorboards of a car, when the safeties were released.
On another forum a poster stated that a woman in El Paso had been killed, when an owner of a Rem 700 got home and unloaded his rifle in the driveway. The rifle discharged upon safety release, the bullet went way up, and way down, killing the woman who apparently was outside on the lawn.
The reason these things have triggers is so you can control when it goes off. Accidentaly discharges due to defective designs will kill people.
On another forum a poster stated that a woman in El Paso had been killed, when an owner of a Rem 700 got home and unloaded his rifle in the driveway. The rifle discharged upon safety release, the bullet went way up, and way down, killing the woman who apparently was outside on the lawn.
The reason these things have triggers is so you can control when it goes off. Accidentaly discharges due to defective designs will kill people.
I would never admit that I walked all the way from my tree stand to my truck with my rifle loaded and on safe. Why would you do that? I would not hunt with folks that got in my truck with a loaded rifle on safe, why would you do that?. How is it possible to arrive at your home and then decide it's now time to unload my deer rifle......I see the problem, its not remington.
If I owned a factory remington with it's original trigger and knew it had never been "tinkered" with I would not worry about it. But I also don't load my rifle until I am in my stand and it's unloaded before I climb down the tree.
If I owned a factory remington with it's original trigger and knew it had never been "tinkered" with I would not worry about it. But I also don't load my rifle until I am in my stand and it's unloaded before I climb down the tree.
slamfire said:
There is a recognized problem with early Remington 700 Triggers that Remington will fix (If I remember correctly), involving rifles that could be "tricked" into firing by putting the safety lever placed in between "safe" and "fire" positions (i.e, not actually on safe), the trigger is then pulled in this condition and the rifle goes off when the safety lever is moved to the "fire".
This isn't a huge problem on it's own, but compounded with the pre 1982 700 trigger that locked the bolt closed when the safety is on it could become one. You had to take the safety off to unload the rifle. An estimated 1% of the rifles sold before 1982 could have this problem.
This was also fixed 30 years ago.
http://www.drinnonlaw.com/docs/Remington-79-80-Memo.pdf
I hunt in a county where you have to be 10 feet up to use a rifle. But even if I did hunt my way back to the truck I would drop the first round back onto the follower and lower the bolt on an empty chamber. I can load a round if I need one.
Every accident I can remember hearing of took place at the "truck", or crossing a fence of falling down while walking or at the house. Hunting is safe, but walking in dark woods with a loaded hair triggered rifle is not safe IMHO.
Every accident I can remember hearing of took place at the "truck", or crossing a fence of falling down while walking or at the house. Hunting is safe, but walking in dark woods with a loaded hair triggered rifle is not safe IMHO.
Double Naught Spy
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Right, in fact the last hog I got was on the way back in after 5 hours in the stand, and only about 200 yards or so from my vehicle.
I agree that hunting is safe... and that I do most of my hunting while walking around the woods with a loaded rifle. If it's dark then yeah, I'd probably be unloaded. I don't have a rifle in my hands when I cross a fence so that's not an issue.
The safety I value most is the one between my ears, and has nothing to do with whatever the rifle has.
Depends on where you are. Goes back to Rule #2 and Rule #4Chettt said:
Use some common sense, ask yourself "will this bullet go through that?". In a pinch, it is usually not to hard to find good old planet Earth as a safe direction.
Then again, like I said, Remington will fix the pre-1982 triggers, and hasn't made a rifle that needed to be off safe to unload in thirty years, so that is not (or should not be) a concern any more.
I wouldn't hunt with a rifle that needed to be off safe to unload.
Chettt said:
It wouldn't be a 1911 then, would it?
Right, since 1982.eldermike said:
I keep hearing guys say you need to keep your 700 properly maintained . I clean the heck out of my guns every time I get back from shooting . I almost never do anything with the triggers in any of my guns . Mostly cus you can't really get to them . I don't take my bolt guns out of the stocks after I have them shooting well cus I don't want to mess with the torque on the screws again . My other guns that I can get to the triggers . I might give them a quick shot of air and light nylon brushing but not much . ( light lube )
How much more should a guy do to keep that area clean . I don't want to be taking the FCG apart to clean each piece . I'll never get it back together. I have a .22 model 60 I would love to take apart and replace the springs and clean everything real well but it looks like I'd be opening a can of worms If I took that trigger assembly apart . Whats a a proper amount of cleaning that will not create more problems .
How much more should a guy do to keep that area clean . I don't want to be taking the FCG apart to clean each piece . I'll never get it back together. I have a .22 model 60 I would love to take apart and replace the springs and clean everything real well but it looks like I'd be opening a can of worms If I took that trigger assembly apart . Whats a a proper amount of cleaning that will not create more problems .
steveNChunter
New member
Neither of my 700's have ever had this problem, one is a pre-'82, the other a model 7 from the 90's. A few years ago I got my gunsmith to teach me how to properly adjust the trigger on a model 700, and he told me about a few instances where he either saw first hand or heard about a 700 that had fired when the safety was flippped off with no trigger pull. He said that in each and every case, the trigger had been adjusted to around 2 lbs. or lower. So I took his advice and adjusted mine to 3 lbs. to be safe. That's light enough for me as mine are both hunting rifles. If they ever cease to suit me at that pull weight I'll just buy a timney.
Prof Young
New member
Heard it from an LEO in person.
I was having this discussion at the range with an LEO. He said they'd had Rem 700s that would fire when the safety was disengaged . . . so they just stopped using the safety.
This issue is why I don't buy Remington anything anymore. They have or had a serious problem and have never stepped up to the plate in an honest fashion and dealt with it in terms of those who were hurt and even killed. There has never been a recall and their first decision to continue manufacture when the problem was first diagnosed is nothing but greed.
We should expect better of our Arms Manufacturers.
Live well, be safe
Prof Young
I was having this discussion at the range with an LEO. He said they'd had Rem 700s that would fire when the safety was disengaged . . . so they just stopped using the safety.
This issue is why I don't buy Remington anything anymore. They have or had a serious problem and have never stepped up to the plate in an honest fashion and dealt with it in terms of those who were hurt and even killed. There has never been a recall and their first decision to continue manufacture when the problem was first diagnosed is nothing but greed.
We should expect better of our Arms Manufacturers.
Live well, be safe
Prof Young
ShamrockArmory
New member
Multiple people have returned their 700s and all Remington says is "Everything is fine, you must be crazy."
A1 customer service, that.
A1 customer service, that.
Almost everyone who owns Remington 700's are going to defend them but just because they've never had the problem dose'nt mean they don't need to have their rifle checked by Rem. or replace with a Timmney or other trigger. If it's even remoetly possible that a certain model rifle could discharge by disengageing the safety or without pulling the trgger, even if it's never happened to you as a owner, you should have it checked out or replace the trigger IMO. Makes me glad I own all Sako's.
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