unjust justice

[Daggitt]

He is presumed innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.The burden of proof is on the govenment.

 

[Webleymkv]

isn't it the government's job to prove that he DID know ? Or did that end once possession was confirmed ?

Theoretically, yes. However, I suspect that it probably came down to a "he said, she said" between "Jim" and the "FBI informant" in which the jury, apparently, believed the informant over "Jim".

 

[Aguila Blanca]

One problem with defense in these kinds of issues is that it is extremely difficult to proove, well after the fact what you did not know. Prooving a negative is the most difficult of arguments. Even a little doubt, along with a convincing argument can sway jurors, and even judges opinions. Particularly when those being convinced are of the "knew or should have known" opinion already.

No need to prove a negative. The prosecution must prove the positive. If the law simply says "possess," then the fact the NFA toys were in his shed would constitute possession. (The entrapment angle is a detour, but an important one.)

On the other hand, if the law says "knowingly possess," then the mere presence of the toys in Jim's shed is not proof that he knew anything. The government has the affirmative task of proving that he knew the items were NFA items.

 

[chasep255]

How is possesion actually defined? Just because the stuff is on his property does that really mean he posses it? It sounds like it is actually in the possesion of the girlfriend. As a hypothetical if someone puts something illegal in public storage is the owner of the public storage facility in possesion and therefore guilty?

 

[Rifleman1776]

The items just being on his property, under the Federal laws, constituted possession even if he had no knowledge what was in his shed. That's why I titled this thread "UN-just justice".

 

[lawnboy]

Accepting your statements at face value, I feel sorry for Jim. One small moment where his judgement failed him results in a Federal conviction. It serves to harden my resolve to suspect everyone, all the time.

Treat life like a poker game. Assume everyone else is lying and never tell the truth yourself, at least not the whole truth. Even if it means "losing" a little bit.

 

[NWPilgrim]

What is really sad is that at 70 yrs of age "Jim" may have been making more lax decisions then he might have at a younger age. HE might not e certifiable in dementia. but many health factors can start to impair judgement in the 70s and 80s. Not for everyone but for many elderly.

My Dad died from Parkinsons in his early 80s but looking back we can see his decision making (finances especially) started to deteriorate at least by 75 yrs old. Strokes (or mini-strokes) and heart problems can also contribute to mental impairment.

Sounds like his attorney didn't do much to represent him against entrapment or possible diminished mental capacity.

 

[Aguila Blanca]

Sounds like his attorney didn't do much to represent him against entrapment or possible diminished mental capacity.

C'mon!

How many people do you know who would call an attorney if someone asks, "Hey, can I store some of my friend's stuff in your shed for awhile?"?

 

[Bartholomew Roberts]

The jury must have believed your friend knew what was in the shed because otherwise there is not the required mens rea to find him guilty.

 

[vranasaurus]

Here is what i turned up with google as this appears to be the case under discussion.

News Article

What the OP didn't mention is that Mr. Pierce ("Jim") was also convicted of possessing his own unregistered machine gun as well as lying to the police.

Here are some excerpts:

Pierce was convicted of one count of conspiring with Mark Krause, 40, of Forum to possess three machine guns,a short-barrel rifle and three silencers. Those seven unregistered firearm items belonged to Krause but were stored in Pierce’s house from August until the residence was raided by federal agents on Jan. 7.

Besides the conspiracy count, Pierce was convicted of seven counts of aiding and abetting the possession of Krause’s seven unregistered pieces of weaponry.

Pierce was also convicted of two counts of lying to the FBI and one count of possessing a machine gun that he owned.

and

In the recording, made Dec. 4, Pierce told Dunk the FBI had been by to see him the previous day, which was the day Krause was arrested.

“They couldn’t interrogate a frog,” Pierce told Dunk in the recording.

Pierce told Dunk he didn’t give the FBI “any information” and told her, “Don’t give them anything that they can use against him.”

 

[MLeake]

Aguila Blanca, if somebody asked me "Can I store a suspected/convicted domestic terrorist's stuff at your place?" I would not need to consult an attorney. I have no need to translate "Pack sand," into Latin.

"Jim" may or may not have known what exactly was in his shed, but he should have had a suspicion that it might not be anything good, based on the source of the goods.

Not sure if he should have been convicted, as I don't know what facts the court had, but from the info posted so far I'm not as sympathetic as I might have been.

Edit: if vranasaurus' last post, that went up while I was typing, is correct, than I really don't have much (if any) sympathy for "Jim."

 

[vranasaurus]

I don't have any sympathy for him.

He clearly intended to inhibit or impede an FBI investigation and possessed his own unregistered machine gun.

His lawyers story to the jury that he told the FBI "no he wasn't storing any of Krause's guns" because he thought that Krause had picked them up is just not very credible.

Reminds me of a good line I once herd from a TDS Attorney.

He had a client who wanted to testify at his indecent acts and child molestation trial that he and the 13 y/o girl were in the room. She was naked but he never touched her.

The attorney said "That's just not the story the panel wants to hear".

 

[chasep255]

Well I don't feel as bad for him now knowing that he did posses a machine gun of his own and therefore knew he was taking on a risk.

 

[lawnboy]

Sympathy gone. See, I should have took my own advice and not "accepted your statement at face value".

I'm right, even when I'm wrong

 

[rodent.22]

His chance of a normal life is over over over. Period. Once a person has fallen into the''justice pit'' he's screwed. To clear his name will break him financially. Once in the system for all practical puposes he'll never get out.

 

[hogdogs]

'Jim' is a military hero with 34 years service and honorable discharge. He has stepped in front of bullets for friends and would do it again. He is one of the most honorable people I have ever known.

Considering what we now know... would "rifleman" like to rescind that "honorable" portion?

Honorable folks do not conspire to thwart the efforts of a federal investigation into a terrorist. They also wouldn't consider violating federal law either. Seems Ol' Jim did both. I am also leaning my opinion towards this Jim feller (obviously anti-fed if not outright anarchist/terrorist) may have had more to do with planning the terrorist act the buddy was busted for. Heck, he might have given advice on how to build or place the explosive device.

I have known many folks who were no less dangerous than jim's buddy. Never snitched them out based on some talk over a few beers but I sure wouldn't allow any unknown possessions of theirs to be stored at my place.

Sucks for ol' jim! But at least he ain't gotta worry where his next meal will be coming from... They serve them at exactly the same times every day! Jim, if you are reading this, I would like a pair of work boots in brown, black is too hot on a florida sunny summer day.

Brent

 

[Aguila Blanca]

Edit: if vranasaurus' last post, that went up while I was typing, is correct, than I really don't have much (if any) sympathy for "Jim."

Agreed.

It appears that "Jim" may not be as deserving of our sympathy or support as was originally represented.

 

[johnbt]

"What the OP didn't mention is that Mr. Pierce ("Jim") was also convicted of possessing his own unregistered machine gun as well as lying to the police."

Thank you for looking this up, you saved me the trouble.

No wonder the original poster didn't include any facts or names.

 

[Uncle Buck]

The article mentions the guns where stored in his house. That is different from a shed.

Seems like a friend lied to the OP. If the linked story is accurate and refers to the friend of the OP, then I have no sympathy for "Jim".

 

[NJgunowner]

Sometimes the justice system gets it right.