tube mag rimfire vs centerfire

[44 AMP]

Here's another thought, .22 Rimfire ammo pretty much HAS to be loaded that way. Between the softness of the bullets and the heel type seating, .22 rimfires are not well suited for going through the loading gate and surviving intact.

Note that, since the introduction of the loading gate (King's patent) only the Henry (and imitators) stuck with the "dropping them down the tube" type magazine system for centerfires.

Another thing is that primers today are better than they used to be, more uniform in their sensitivity. A lead bullet point isn't much of a concern, as it would deform and likely not set off the primer. Another point is that the point (tip) has to be both hard enough, AND small enough to act like a firing pin.

Large (relative to the primer) bullet noses, flat, round, or even somewhat pointed, being lead are not a concern. FMJ bullets, and especially spritzer types ARE a concern. Then recoil AND spring tension in the tube mag become serious factors.

No, I wouldn't be comfortable dropping rounds a foot or more down a tube (ala Henry) with FMJ spritzer bullets, at all. With rn or fp bullets, I wouldn't be all that concerned.

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

Based on your question, I thought you might have been referring to the bullets being pushed back into the case due to improper crimping from either recoil or the dropping of rounds into the tube as you describe. This could potentially cause an unsafe rise in chamber pressure.

I have loaded 44-40 for my rifles for many years. 44-40 has very thin brass, and the crimp even at best does not hold the bullet very firmly. No where nearly as firm as the more substantial brass of 45 Colt.

I make up dummy 44-40 rounds every once in a while to make sure the OAL is correct for functioning in my rifles; original Winchester 1892s, Old Marlin 1894, and reproduction Uberti 1860 Henry and 1873 Winchester. My experience is that with the firmest crimp possible to put on the 44-40 round, the bullet WILL setback into the case after being run through the magazine a couple of times. No recoil involved, just the slamming of the column of cartridges back every time a new one is stripped out of the magazine.

Luckily I usually load 44-40 (and 38-40) with Black Powder, so there is a solid mass of powder behind the bullet preventing it from setting back.

Note that, since the introduction of the loading gate (King's patent) only the Henry (and imitators) stuck with the "dropping them down the tube" type magazine system for centerfires.

Once Winchester introduced the 'Improved Henry' later called the Model 1866 with the King's Patent loading gate, they stopped producing the Henry. The Henry was only produced from 1862 until 1866 when the company name was changed to Winchester Repeating Arms Company, and the 1860 Henry production stopped.

Yes, I too have an Uberti replica of the 1860 Henry rifle. I am extremely careful when I load it, I wrap my left hand around the barrel/magazine just below the mouth of the magazine in case the follower should slip. The follower will slam into my hand and not reach column of cartridges. I also never drop the rounds straight down the tube, I hold the rifle at a slight angle on the loading table and allow the rounds to slowly trickle down the tube.

Yes, there have been instances of cartridges firing in the magazine of a Henry from the follower slamming down on the column of cartridges, and there have been instances of them firing simply because they were dropped straight down the tube. High primers are usually blamed, but I think there is something else at work here.

 

[Guv]

So the "Loading Gate" is to be considered an improvement for a tube magazine rifle?
Seems like a step backwards for some new company's to abandon it.

 

[SIGSHR]

The Lebel was State of the Art and quite a breakthrough in its day though quickly made obsolete by the development of the Mannlicher and then Mauser loading systems. At the Battle of ConCon in the Chilean Civil War of 1891 it was found that Kroptaschek rifles had a good rate of fire but were too slow to reload. The Lebel has a cut off, perhaps French practice was similar to ours with the Krag. Only problem I see with a tubular magazine in centerfire other than with Spitzer pointed bullets might be from FMJ ammo.

 

[Erno86]

I was witness to a Uberti Henry Golden Boy tubular magazine explosion --- in 45 Colt --- from a shooter who was about 10 feet away from me on the 100 yard firing pad at our range; about 10 years ago. He was shooting offhand, with his support hand gripping the forearm. I heard a strange double explosion when he shot...and the male shooter cried out "I can't believe this happened to me!!!"

I inspected the tubular magazine, and noted that it definitely exploded from a round that hit another round's primer in front of it.

He suffered 3 shrapnel puncture wounds to his left support arm, and one puncture wound in his abdomen just below his belly button.

 

[Guv]

Erno that's terrible, I wonder what type of bullets were in those Colt cases?

 

[Erno86]

It was a terrible event. Not sure whether the shooter was using reloads with not properly seated primers or what. I'm sure he had enough sense to not use pointy tipped bullets.

When the event happened...the working RSO was about 500 yards away up on the trap range. I went into the range house to call an ambulance, but I could not get there phone to work, because it needed a special code --- So I called 911 on my cell phone --- the 911 operator insisted that I give her the correct numbered address, but I only could tell her the two corner streets where our range is located at; since I didn't know the numbered address --- I then lost cell phone reception with the 911 operator.

I offered to take the wounded shooter to the hospital in my car, but he told me he would drive himself to the hospital in his Toyota pick-up. He drove off...and that was the last time I ever saw him.

Then the RSO came back in his golf cart. He ask me whether I saw the wounded shooter's range badge number --- I told him that I did not see or ask too see his range badge number --- So we never found out what happened to the wounded shooter, after he left the range.

 

[stubbicatt]

Erno, that sounds like an unpleasant experience for all involved.

I sure don't want that to happen to me. As it so happens, I really like shooting lever action, tubular magazine rifles. In my Uberti 1873 replica I load cast RNFP bullets exclusively. In my 1894 Winchester, chambered in 30 WCF, either jacketed round nose, or cast flat point bullets. I think from now on, my rifles are going to be 2 shot rifles. One in the chamber, one in the magazine.