tube mag rimfire vs centerfire

[dieselbeef]

bad to load a centerfire 357 tube mag like a henry but not bad to do it in a 22 mag rimfire
why not? rimfire goes off anywhere a striker gets it...I get the pointy thing in a center fire

so tell me the difference

 

[idek]

not exactly sure what the question is... Henry centerfire guns load about the same as their rimfire guns, don't they?

 

[mavracer]

A: rimfire won't go off "anywhere a striker gets it" it actually relies a lot on the chamber to "pinch" the rim for ignition also rimfires don't produce anywhere near enough recoil.

 

[James K]

Actually, it is harder to set off a rim-fire than a center-fire round, which is why .22 handguns have stiff mainsprings.

But as far as tubular magazines go, recoil is a major factor when it is understood just what happens in that magazine that can set off a round.

First, the magazine has to have at least two to four rounds in it. When the rifle recoils, the rounds in the magazine tend to stay forward, pushing the follower forward and compressing the spring. Then when the recoil impulse stops, the magazine spring pushes the rounds back so that the primer of one round can contact the bullet of the round to its rear. That is usually, but not always, the rear round stopping on the cartridge stop and its bullet digging into the primer of the next forward round as it is slammed back. A certain space is needed to build momentum, which is why there is no problem with a full magazine or, in most cases, with only one round fired.

With rim fires, not only is there no center primer, but the bullets are usually soft lead or thinly jacketed, and the rounds are much too light to build enough momentum for firing any primer, let alone a primer encased in hard brass.

Jim

 

[dieselbeef]

james I think ya answered my question. thanks

 

[Guv]

I wonder how many 35 Rem 336's have and are loaded with the Remington 150gr PSP factory load. I don't ever recall seeing any warning on a box of those 150's, kinda scary.

 

[SARuger]

Enter Hornady LEVERevolution ammo, great stuff! Its pointy BUT the tip is soft and will not fire the primer. The ballistics are greatly improved vs a round nose.

http://www.hornady.com/store/FTX

 

[SARuger]

I wonder how many 35 Rem 336's have and are loaded with the Remington 150gr PSP factory load. I don't ever recall seeing any warning on a box of those 150's, kinda scary.

Years ago when I first started hunting i owned a Marlin 336c 30-30. My football coach was a avid hunter/reloader and loaded me some Hornady PSP rounds in 150g. It was a tack driver with that round and I never had any issues. I still wonder today why I didn't!

One would think that very small soft point would have fired the primer but he assured me it wouldn't.......and it didn't.

 

[dieselbeef]

ive never actually seen or heard of it happeneing. somewhere it must have tho cuz the rumor is everywhere

 

[kcub]

45 Colt ammo used to be pointier or at least rounder nosed than it is today being flat more like the 44-40. 1860 Henry pattern rifles such as reproduced by Uberti in 45 Colt can be a concern with this ammo if you let them slam down hard one on top of another. I have just such a rifle and load it with the muzzle at about a 30 degree angle so that they can gently slide down the tube. I shot a box at some expired canned chicken a la king yesterday. What a hoot!

I always wondered about 38 special 130 grain metal case ammo in rifles with tubular mags. Its round nose but hard round nose, not soft lead. If I ever have the occassion to run such ammo through my 357 Henry big boy steel I will use extra caution.

 

[joe45c]

Kcub, I also have the uberti 1860 henry in .45 colt, And take care to angle it some to load it. Just hearing those big .45 colt cases sliding down the mag tube and hitting the ones already in there kinda makes me be careful. And yes it's a hoot to shoot.

 

[dieselbeef]

I have never seen an example of this actually happening...can anyone?

 

[joe45c]

NOPE, but I don't want to witness it 1st hand. I also own a .307 win lever and always load hand load flat point bullets in it. I could load lever revolution bullets but only have shots 75 yards or less.

 

[mavracer]

I always wondered about 38 special 130 grain metal case ammo in rifles with tubular mags.

I've never shot them but there have been millions of RN 30/30s without issue and concidering the difference in recoil I can't see a reason not to.

 

[James K]

Yes, it has happened and I have seen pictures of the result. Surprisingly, there was no great damage, just a bulged tube and cracked forend. In that test case, a real effort was made to get the result, including a heavy load to increase recoil and the exact number of rounds, plus pointed full jacket military bullets. So it is a rare occurrence and it is not surprising that most of us have never seen a case.

Some folks might recall that the Remington pump rifles had spiral grooves pressed into the magazine tube. The purpose of those was to slow down the rearward movement of the cartridge column I mention in my earlier post. It seems to have worked, but Winchester apparently never found it necessary.

Jim

 

[gyvel]

Based on your question, I thought you might have been referring to the bullets being pushed back into the case due to improper crimping from either recoil or the dropping of rounds into the tube as you describe. This could potentially cause an unsafe rise in chamber pressure.

 

[gyvel]

Some folks might recall that the Remington pump rifles had spiral grooves pressed into the magazine tube. The purpose of those was to slow down the rearward movement of the cartridge column I mention in my earlier post. It seems to have worked, but Winchester apparently never found it necessary.

As I pointed out in another thread, the French got it right in the 1886 Lebel by cutting an annular ring in the base of the cartridge; When the rounds were loaded, the pointed bullet nestled in the ring away from the primer. Winchester, et. al, could have easily done this to their cartridges to allow for spitzer bullets.

 

[Guv]

James K,
I remember those Remington mag tubes and had read the reason for the spiral, looked pretty distinctive! The 35 rem can have a pretty good jolt in a lighter rifle, I'm not surprised you have a recollection of this happening with the 150 PSP.

 

[kcub]

Yes, it has happened and I have seen pictures of the result. Surprisingly, there was no great damage, just a bulged tube and cracked forend. In that test case, a real effort was made to get the result, including a heavy load to increase recoil and the exact number of rounds, plus pointed full jacket military bullets. So it is a rare occurrence and it is not surprising that most of us have never seen a case.

So it was reloads?

As I pointed out in another thread, the French got it right in the 1886 Lebel by cutting an annular ring in the base of the cartridge; When the rounds were loaded, the pointed bullet nestled in the ring away from the primer. Winchester, et. al, could have easily done this to their cartridges to allow for spitzer bullets.

Did anyone make a lever rifle in 8mm Lebel?

Also the military could have required the annular ring. Did no one else follow this or was it dropped because with box mags you don't need it so why not simplify manufacturing and make it cheaper?

 

[Guv]

Remington still shows the 150gr PSP Core-Lokt. I ended up with some years ago bought really cheap at K-Mart in Fredericksberg. In my 336 I used to load only two, one in the chamber and one in the mag. I didn't trust my luck.