Took my neighbor to the indoor range today.

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GWbiker

New member
My such drama from the "Gloom n' Doom" crowd. :(

Here's an update:

I met BF a few weeks ago. He's about 5'4". I'm close to 6' tall. He had few words to say to me and he knows where I live, plus he knows I'm retired LEO.

One of her close neighbors is a Tucson LEO who's home weekends. His phone number is on her speed dial. Likewise my cell number and I live just 50 yards away.

I don't know if he saw the target, but she threw him out this afternoon. He's packing his stuff as I type. Her neighbors are keeping an eye on the move. Her two teens have cell phones and know how to dial 911.

She asked me to take her Monday to file a restraining order against BF.

I'm just surprised by the negative response on this forum to someones attempt to keep a nice woman from becoming a doormat to someone who ignores his own family.

Yeah, I'll hear on this forum that her domestic affair is none of my business. Well damn it, I made it my business, so flame away!!:mad:
 
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Smaug

New member
GWbiker - I don't see it as a negative response. We're just looking out for you, and it seems that we only had part of the story.

Well played.

Making it your business reminds me of that guy Joe (?) from Texas a couple years back who blasted those two Columbian drug dealers with his 12 ga. pump shotgun after they robbed his neighbor's house because 911 wasn't getting there in time. He said stop, they charged him, and now they're pushing up daisies.

Except your situation is more proactive than reactive.
 
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WVfishguy

New member
I'm just surprised by the negative response on this forum to someones attempt to keep a nice woman from becoming a doormat to a reprobate who ignores his own family.
Click to expand...

We need more people like GWbiker.

Most of us are too scared to "do the right thing."

I've encountered scenarios like this in the past. I've always "done the right thing."

The "right thing" is seldom the "safe thing." We need to think about what's right, not what is safe.
 
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EastSideRich

New member
I think most were just saying this was just probably not the right way to handle it

It's great she got rid of that POS. It could have easily ended up playing out (and may still) as people here had imagined. Guys who knock women around usually wouldn't take things like showing them a target with their name and a bunch of holes on it very well. I would bet the majority of guys who don't have a problem hitting their girlfriend would have really taught her a lesson after that; not to mention what they would have done (or will do) to you for taking her on what is pretty close to a date.
As an aside I would be furious if my wife went to a shooting range, or anywhere with some guy. I would never even dream of hitting her, but that basically is going on a date, and I would not be happy.
Women get killed by their husbands/boyfriends everyday. Maybe you knew him well enough to "know" how he would react, but I doubt you absolutely knew - without a doubt - that he would not beat the hell out of her, or worse.
I happen to think this was an extremely irresponsible way to have handled the situation.
I hope that is the last she sees of him; but I also hope you consider the possible consequences if you are ever in a situation like this again.
Aside from what you type on some internet forum, if you are honest with yourself, you have to admit this could have turned out very bad for this girl and her kids.
I'm not "flaming" you or saying you're a bad guy, but this really could have gotten her hurt.

If you absolutely needed to make this your business, maybe you should have been there for her breaking it off with him - maybe letting him know (without actually saying it, of course) that he may find himself in an uncomfortable spot (like in a hole in the woods somewhere) if he comes back to do anything to her - afterall, you are ex-LEO, and probably would hypothetically know how to make something like that happen. Even if you would never do anything like that, he doesn't have to know that.
 
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pax

New member
Nothing wrong with making it your business.

Everything wrong with making it your business in a way that was likely to get her beaten or killed.

And even more wrong with making it your business in a way that made her legal situation MUCH more precarious in the event she actually did end up shooting the bastard.

Good on you for getting involved. Seriously. The world needs more people willing to step up to the plate and get involved.

Next time, watch a little closer for potential unintended consequences.

pax
 
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Elvishead

Moderator
:eek:

Yeah, I'll hear on this forum that her domestic affair is none of my business. Well damn it, I made it my business, so flame away!!
Click to expand...

I hope I didn't sound like a flamer! I'm not the flaming type of guy.

Elvishead

To show it to him might antagonize an undesirable reaction, good, bad, or indifferent.

She should put it somewhere that he might accidentally run into it. Or leave the target on the front door, and let the target speak for it's self.

Hopefully he'll get the picture.
Click to expand...

Glad things are getting better for her. Good luck!
 
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forest15

New member
GW Biker,

Let me get this straight, you post this situation, and now are mad that people have opinions that differ from yours and post them? Maybe if you didn't want the feedback, you shouldn't have posted about the situation :confused: And I was just as confused about your actions as everyone else... Instead of giving her a phone number for an abused women's shelter or call the police yourself, you teach her to shoot? I'm glad she got rid of him, but maybe next time you will devote your time to helping her get out of a bad situation in a manner that doesn't include shooting her boyfriend, that she chooses to keep in her life... And regardless of what you do, you definitely shouldn't post you personal business if you get this fired up when others post their opinions :rolleyes: Just my two cents, hopefully you don't get mad at me for posting my opinion on your situation that you made public :)
 
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Don Lu

New member
Just because it has worked out ok (for now), doesnt mean you chose a smart or wise course of action. I dont take back a thing I said before...as ex LEO, I would imagine you realize that you did not take steps to ensure the saftey (legal and physical) of anyone involved.
 
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Saab1911

New member
I think that if one sees a lady in an abusive relationship, one has several
logical options

1) Mind your own @@@@@@@ business.
2) Alert the authorities.
3) Get the lady some professional help, as in psychotherapy. And you
pay for it and drive her to the appointments and if possible sit with her while
she is getting counseling.

Putting the guy's name on a target and having the lady shoot at it and
encouraging her to show the target to the abusive boyfriend is not
something a responsible adult would do.

Often times, the women in abusive relationships go from one such relationship
to another. Yes, you can blame the abusive boyfriend or husband, but some
women just gravitate toward abusive men. There are psychological aspects
of the woman's mindset which you know nothing about. If you really want to
help her, you need to get her professional help, and if you've stuck your
nose in that far you may as well pay for the therapy sessions yourself until she's
healed and learns to not repeat the cycle of abuse.

The woman could have been killed.
 
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GWbiker

New member
The woman is doing just fine. She was not beaten, she was not verbally abused and she was not shot. Today she obtained a restraining order against former BF. She has met new friends since Saturday evening. Life goes on!

I believe this should satisfy those posters who sit around scratching their heads mumbling that GWbiker shoulda/woulda/coulda did things some other way. This forum seems to be filled with Monday morning Quarterbacks who probably would wet themselves if faced with a immediate life threatening situation.

I'm not mad at any one individual, I'm just disgusted with this forum. I now realize that I don't belong here. I see far too many persons here who would sit around scratching their butt for an hour or so BEFORE taking any action to help a person in dire distress.

Moderator can please close me out. I'm otta of here! No PM's please, I won't answer them!
 
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Elvishead

Moderator
I did that to a target of my neighbor Roger, to make fun of him. Here in Vegas, we have a community water well. Roger is in charge of finance billing, maintenance, repairs, and monitoring our water intake.

One of the less desirable neighbors was wasting water, flooding the streets during the day with a screwed up sprinklers, and illegal daytime usage.

So Roger had to let the guy know. The guy sent him a nasty letter calling Roger the water police.

This photo speaks for it's self.:D It was done in good fun.
 

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orionengnr

New member
I've encountered scenarios like this in the past. I've always "done the right thing."

The "right thing" is seldom the "safe thing." We need to think about what's right, not what is safe.
Click to expand...

The "right thing" is not always the "smart thing". It's not your butt on the line, only your ego.

I believe this should satisfy those posters who sit around scratching their heads mumbling that GWbiker shoulda/woulda/coulda did things some other way. This forum seems to be filled with Monday morning Quarterbacks who probably would wet themselves if faced with a immediate life threatening situation.

I'm not mad at any one individual, I'm just disgusted with this forum. I now realize that I don't belong here. I see far too many persons here who would sit around scratching their butt for an hour or so BEFORE taking any action to help a person in dire distress.
Click to expand...

Yeah, we'll sooooo miss your chest-pounding holier-than-thou dismissal of anyone who's ideas don't match yours.... :rolleyes:

C-Ya.
 
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JohnKSa

Administrator
Shooting a likeness of someone, especially one that's labeled by name, and then providing that target to the person is clearly a threat. If you MEAN to threaten someone that's certainly one way to do it, but you should be aware of the possible consequences of threatening someone in that fashion.

In TX, that would, IMO, qualify as a terroristic threat, a Class B misdemeanor in general or a Class A misdemeanor if applied to a family member--a sufficient offense to get a CHL revoked.
 
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Socrates

Moderator
Well, my roomie was just picked up by the former LEO armour for our city, now retired. After being around both of them for over 15 years, I can safely say that first you have to get a police officer to file something, against a former LEO. Second, you have to get a DA to file, and, considering the circumstances, snow is more likely this time of year in Texas then a DA filing a terrorist threat against a retired LEO, or, a girl who is getting beaten by her boyfriend, and, who files for a RO.

Don't know about Texas, but LEO retired around here are about the only group, other then judges, that get CCW.

NO DA is going to get reelected by going after a retired LEO, or, for that matter an abused woman, trying to break off a relationship with a violent, abusive mate.

Also, at least here, a threat requires the physical force, and proximity to carry that threat out. Unless I'm Putin, and I have a nuclear missile aimed at your house, I can't threaten you long distance on the phone.

In this case, the target was NOT accompanied by the ability, and proximity, to be able to carry any implied threat out. The abused woman did not have a gun, or other weapon that we know of. GWBiker clearly understands the law, how far he can stretch it, and what is required for such a situation to be 'a threat'.

JohnKSa: If you have a specific statute on this, in Texas, please link to it. It is possible that they worded the Texas statutes to ge rid of the proximity requirement, and, the ability to carry the threat out, but, again, it's more likely to be snowing down there...
 
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JohnKSa

Administrator
Socrates,

I believe that GWBiker is the one who's ex-LEO, I don't believe the woman is ex-LEO and since she's the one handing over the target she would be the one seen to be making the threat. However, I was really responding to Elvishead's post about shooting a labeled humanoid target and providing it to the neighbor whose name was on it.

The TX statute is pretty wide open... See what your read is. I tend to agree that it would be viewed with much less concern if the person presenting the target was known not to own a firearm. Then again, the target in and of itself constitutes pretty good proof that the person has at least some access to a firearm.

http://tlo2.tlc.state.tx.us/statutes/docs/PE/content/htm/pe.005.00.000022.00.htm#22.07.00

§ 22.07. TERRORISTIC THREAT. (a) A person commits an
offense if he threatens to commit any offense involving violence to
any person or property with intent to:
...
(2) place any person in fear of imminent serious
bodily injury;
...
(c) An offense under Subsection (a)(2) is a Class B
misdemeanor, except that the offense is a Class A misdemeanor if the
offense:
(1) is committed against a member of the person's
family or household or otherwise constitutes family violence;
 
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Socrates

Moderator
Fair enough:
§ 22.07. TERRORISTIC THREAT. (a) A person commits an
offense if he threatens to commit any offense involving violence to
any person or property with intent to:
(1) cause a reaction of any type to his threat by an
official or volunteer agency organized to deal with emergencies;
(2) place any person in fear of imminent serious
bodily injury;
Click to expand...

The prongs are person in fear and imminent serious bodily injury. This is the part I was referencing above. Came from common law, and, pretty much is a standard legal concept. To be in fear, the person has to be within threat distance, and, usually it's reasonable fear, or, it can be like tort logic, you take the person as they are. In other words, if you are insane, and, I point a water pistol at you, and you believe the water pistol is filled with something that will make you melt, that CAN sometimes be considered sufficient, if the person making the threat has knowledge of the person they threatens mental state.
That's usually the minority position.

If Mr. Biker had walked up, carrying his gun, and handed the guy the target, and said something like,
"If you hit her again..." THAT would qualify. However, as I said, snow would be falling in Texas first to get that charged...

I do remember my martial arts teacher one time doing something that was pretty funny. Some black belt was getting cocky, I think it was me.;) He grabbed a pine, 1" thick board, dropped it, and broke it while it was falling, with the other hand. As it bounced off the wall he said,

"Thinking of you!" and smiled.:eek::D

I got the point...
 
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