Tommy gun vs AR-15
- Thread starter old_yout
- Start date
In your situation as you describe, I would choose the M16. Here's why:
Sounds like you want it for the "coffee table ogle factor" and occassional shooting. A Thompson is a HEAVY gun - almost twice that of an M16 shorty. Hard to manuever around the coffee table, easy to whack heavy gun on table and piss wife off.
A quality Thompson in fine condition will cost more than a like condition M16. I doubt you'd be happy with a worn, scared M1A1. An excellent condition Colt 1921 is almost twice the price of an M16. Fancy a Colt navy Overstamp? even more. You could buy an M16 and a Vector Arms UZI for less than a 1921.
With the M16, you can configure multiple uppers. Or just one. My most fun gun is the M16 shorty. Talk about LOUD and FAST - wow, certianly gets attention at the range! Also a shorty is so light and compact.
With a flattop upper, you can also mount all kinds of optics - scope, EOtech, reddot, ACOGs, etc. The list abounds.
Also with the M16 you can buy yourself a Shrike belt-fed upper. Ultimate Arnold-cool for the coffe table commando or a nice way to chew thru barrels at the range.
The Thompson is a harder gun to shoot - with the drop at heel stock, you get more muzzle rise. There was a reason WWII soliders did not like to be around the Thompson! Whereas the M16 is all straight-line recoil, the A2 flash suppressor helps compensate and a shorty configuration does not have much recoil (because the muzzle energy is going into creating a HUGE fireball!)
Sounds like you want it for the "coffee table ogle factor" and occassional shooting. A Thompson is a HEAVY gun - almost twice that of an M16 shorty. Hard to manuever around the coffee table, easy to whack heavy gun on table and piss wife off.
A quality Thompson in fine condition will cost more than a like condition M16. I doubt you'd be happy with a worn, scared M1A1. An excellent condition Colt 1921 is almost twice the price of an M16. Fancy a Colt navy Overstamp? even more. You could buy an M16 and a Vector Arms UZI for less than a 1921.
With the M16, you can configure multiple uppers. Or just one. My most fun gun is the M16 shorty. Talk about LOUD and FAST - wow, certianly gets attention at the range! Also a shorty is so light and compact.
With a flattop upper, you can also mount all kinds of optics - scope, EOtech, reddot, ACOGs, etc. The list abounds.
Also with the M16 you can buy yourself a Shrike belt-fed upper. Ultimate Arnold-cool for the coffe table commando or a nice way to chew thru barrels at the range.
The Thompson is a harder gun to shoot - with the drop at heel stock, you get more muzzle rise. There was a reason WWII soliders did not like to be around the Thompson! Whereas the M16 is all straight-line recoil, the A2 flash suppressor helps compensate and a shorty configuration does not have much recoil (because the muzzle energy is going into creating a HUGE fireball!)
psp...
"A quality Thompson in fine condition will cost more than a like condition M16. I doubt you'd be happy with a worn, scared M1A1."
Funny, but I have several "worn, scared (I think you meant "scarred")" M1 Garands and M1 Carbines, and I am VERY HAPPY with them! To me those scars are hard-earned reminders of the battles these fine veterans have been through in the service of our country. I would be ecstatic to have a worn, scarred veteran M1A1 in my collection, preferably in operational condition.
Replies to this thread come, I think, from two perspectives. The first is from those who are looking for a real combat weapon primarily. In that instance, in most circumstances I can imagine, the M-16 would be a hands-down winner. Although for close-in (say, less than 100 yards) the M1A1 could suffice, the wise person with a choice would opt for the M-16.
The other perspective is from the history buff who has an appreciative eye for fine firearms from past wars. That is one of the reasons I prowl gun shops and shows looking for good specimens of older firearms. While I have a few modern, high-tech firearms as self-defense firearms, I also have some older firearms which are fun shooters and reminders of our past.
I do not believe that there is only one right answer to the original question. Just two sides with their own pros and cons. You have certainly provided one side which has a lot of merit.
"A quality Thompson in fine condition will cost more than a like condition M16. I doubt you'd be happy with a worn, scared M1A1."
Funny, but I have several "worn, scared (I think you meant "scarred")" M1 Garands and M1 Carbines, and I am VERY HAPPY with them! To me those scars are hard-earned reminders of the battles these fine veterans have been through in the service of our country. I would be ecstatic to have a worn, scarred veteran M1A1 in my collection, preferably in operational condition.
Replies to this thread come, I think, from two perspectives. The first is from those who are looking for a real combat weapon primarily. In that instance, in most circumstances I can imagine, the M-16 would be a hands-down winner. Although for close-in (say, less than 100 yards) the M1A1 could suffice, the wise person with a choice would opt for the M-16.
The other perspective is from the history buff who has an appreciative eye for fine firearms from past wars. That is one of the reasons I prowl gun shops and shows looking for good specimens of older firearms. While I have a few modern, high-tech firearms as self-defense firearms, I also have some older firearms which are fun shooters and reminders of our past.
I do not believe that there is only one right answer to the original question. Just two sides with their own pros and cons. You have certainly provided one side which has a lot of merit.
FPrice...
yes, "scarred" not "scared" was what I intended; spell check has addled my brain!
Certianly the Thompson has historic military value, but so does the Colt - Vietnam, the Gulf War and currently Afghanistan. Remember, more than half the population was not even alive when WWII ended.
It all boils down to personal preference - which old_yout was orginally asking. It all ends up with him and his money, but he was asking for opinions and I was trying to give him my rationale.
yes, "scarred" not "scared" was what I intended; spell check has addled my brain!
Certianly the Thompson has historic military value, but so does the Colt - Vietnam, the Gulf War and currently Afghanistan. Remember, more than half the population was not even alive when WWII ended.
It all boils down to personal preference - which old_yout was orginally asking. It all ends up with him and his money, but he was asking for opinions and I was trying to give him my rationale.
Art Eatman
Staff in Memoriam
I'd not hesitate a Noo Yawk minute to glom on to a real "Tommy Gun". Hey, I grew up on the gangster movies of the 1930s/1940s! They use Tommy Guns! 
Besides, they're a ball to shoot. Back 20 years ago when you could buy one brand new in the box for $750, anybody with a non-collector type would gladly let you try it.
Back around 1982, there was a coke dealer in Austin who had one. He and his girlfriend would go to a local range and burn up a few hundred rounds. I learned what days they usually showed up, and made a point of scrounging all that new, once-fired brass. Made life easier in IPSC.
Art
Besides, they're a ball to shoot. Back 20 years ago when you could buy one brand new in the box for $750, anybody with a non-collector type would gladly let you try it.
Back around 1982, there was a coke dealer in Austin who had one. He and his girlfriend would go to a local range and burn up a few hundred rounds. I learned what days they usually showed up, and made a point of scrounging all that new, once-fired brass. Made life easier in IPSC.
Art
Really a tommy gun is awfully heavy for what it is good for... so why not add an extra 10 pounds and get a BAR?
Not that I'm suggesting rolling out of bed to investigate a "bump in the night" with a 26 pound open bolt fully automatic 30-06 with a 20 round magazine full of 172gr black tip bullets... but you could if you had say $25k and lived in a class 3 state.
ok back to the basics. In semi-auto, there have been a lot of makers of semi auto (get a real one like an Auto Ordinace, rather than a "commando arms" mark 45) Tommy guns, but they are all pretty heavy for a short barreled HD gun. A pre-ban 16 inch CAR (with a flash supressor) would be far lighter, handier and still packs a short range whallop well beyond what a .45 round can produce. (For me, I'd get the SBR permit and build a Krinkov, just for grins.) The 223 is capable of hitting your neighbors house 400 yards away with an errant shot. Thats why a 223 is NOT a great HD round, say compared to a shotgun.
If you aren't going to shoot it much, why spend the extra $$$$$ for preban bells and whistles? Planning on bayneting a would be intruder? I'd seriously consider splitting the difference. You want "cool" factor. You want light. You want historical. You want a hi-cap magazine. Sounds to me like the solution MIGHT be an M-1 Carbine.
Not that I'm suggesting rolling out of bed to investigate a "bump in the night" with a 26 pound open bolt fully automatic 30-06 with a 20 round magazine full of 172gr black tip bullets... but you could if you had say $25k and lived in a class 3 state.
ok back to the basics. In semi-auto, there have been a lot of makers of semi auto (get a real one like an Auto Ordinace, rather than a "commando arms" mark 45) Tommy guns, but they are all pretty heavy for a short barreled HD gun. A pre-ban 16 inch CAR (with a flash supressor) would be far lighter, handier and still packs a short range whallop well beyond what a .45 round can produce. (For me, I'd get the SBR permit and build a Krinkov, just for grins.) The 223 is capable of hitting your neighbors house 400 yards away with an errant shot. Thats why a 223 is NOT a great HD round, say compared to a shotgun.
If you aren't going to shoot it much, why spend the extra $$$$$ for preban bells and whistles? Planning on bayneting a would be intruder? I'd seriously consider splitting the difference. You want "cool" factor. You want light. You want historical. You want a hi-cap magazine. Sounds to me like the solution MIGHT be an M-1 Carbine.
Art Eatman
Staff in Memoriam
Okay. Just cause we wuz talking about Tommy Guns...Sure, I'd love a BAR. That's another fun toy the Army didn't let me play with long enough.
Just a danged shame the stupid anti-gun idiots brought about the outlawing of newly manufactured full-auto...Nuthin' like gummint for messing up the world.
Art
Just a danged shame the stupid anti-gun idiots brought about the outlawing of newly manufactured full-auto...Nuthin' like gummint for messing up the world.
Art
I'm in agreement with the majority here. For practical purposes the AR would win hands down but I'd still much rather have the Thompson, scarred or not!
BTW since I can't fford a Thompson I did what Mute suggested, I bought a .45 ACP upper for my AR. I like it plus it has a great cool factor at the range.
BTW since I can't fford a Thompson I did what Mute suggested, I bought a .45 ACP upper for my AR. I like it plus it has a great cool factor at the range.
Johnny Guest
Moderator in Memoriam
Now THAT's interesting, though I don't know why - - - -
fal308--Guess I just don't keep up with the product line very well.
Your response brings up a lot of questions;
Where did you get the .45 ACP upper for your AR?
Can you provide a link?
What does something like that cost?
What sort of accuracy do you get with it?
What kind of magazines does it use?
Gonna have to retain you as consultant. (Aside--fal provided exact information on a question I posed in another forum.)
Best,
Johnny Guest
fal308--Guess I just don't keep up with the product line very well.
Your response brings up a lot of questions;
Where did you get the .45 ACP upper for your AR?
Can you provide a link?
What does something like that cost?
What sort of accuracy do you get with it?
What kind of magazines does it use?
Gonna have to retain you as consultant. (Aside--fal provided exact information on a question I posed in another forum.)
Best,
Johnny Guest
My .45 ACP upper is from Dalphon. IIRC it's actually an Oly upper. I picked it up at Knob Creek several years ago. Dalphon has a website at www.dalphon.com. Was also looking at a .44 Mag from another vendor a while back but never followed up on that.
They use modified M-3 Grease Gun mags. I have three of the 28 round mags, though one doesn't work too well.
I've never really benched it as I use it as a plinker in conjunction with my 1911s, though it is clay bird accurate at arounds 40 yds.
One of the things I really liked about it was that it was a dedicated upper and didn't require an adaptor to work. Also being dedicated it's actually a blowback action instead of a gas system.
One thing I've noticed is that it seems to have a sharper kick than my 5.56 uppers though I have no trouble with it.
They use modified M-3 Grease Gun mags. I have three of the 28 round mags, though one doesn't work too well.
I've never really benched it as I use it as a plinker in conjunction with my 1911s, though it is clay bird accurate at arounds 40 yds.
One of the things I really liked about it was that it was a dedicated upper and didn't require an adaptor to work. Also being dedicated it's actually a blowback action instead of a gas system.
One thing I've noticed is that it seems to have a sharper kick than my 5.56 uppers though I have no trouble with it.
If I could only have one or the other, I'd have an AR. Which I do. But I'd love to have one of the short 10.5" barrel Tommy guns with the flat forearm. Not a pistol grip forearm. I just don't know where you can buy such a weapon brand new. Auto Ordnance has the flat forearm model but you have to get the longer barrel then a replacement 10.5" barrel.