Thunderwear: What's the real story?

[j-framer]

Wonderful to see all the new responses since my post last night. Thanks to everyone who posted!

Bob O, it was thoughtful of you to indulge my desire for photos. Your comments are valued as well. Really appreciate it.

Doyle said:

I've got a smart carry. I've used it with my Polish P-64. As long as I'm standing, it is great. The problem is when I get in the car. The angle makes sitting in the car with it on uncomfortable.

Exactly what I was wondering about. When you sit, things scrunch up a good deal down there, and room gets a lot less. If you are sitting in those blasted bucket seats, it's probably the worst case scenario. Just so I can get an idea, what's a Polish P-64 and how big (long) is it?

ZeSpectre said:

Firstly, it's DEEP concealment. The good side of that is you can carry just about anyplace (unless they have a metal detector). The bad side is that retrieval is VERY slow (and damned near impossible with a seatbelt on).

On the other hand my Taurus Millennium Pro fits fine and I can carry that whenever with no discomfort, it just falls into place.

Sounds good so far. Deep concealment at the expense of accessibility will work for me. Of course it'd be nice to have both, but concealment is the priority here. If the Millenium Pro will fit well, then I have to believe a J-frame will as well. Even if the latter is a touch longer, it's less blocky than the Taurus, so maybe that will even the score. I'm hopeful.

rgates said:

I was at a gun show where a guy was showing and demonstrating the Smart Carry. Was actually letting people try it with a rubber dummy gun. I gave it a try and there is no way. The dummy gun was not nearly as heavy as even my Makarov and was about the most uncomfortable device I think I have ever tried. I tried to sit with it but on the way down was causing too much pain so I never made it all the way down...The guy demonstrating the thing's pants were so baggy he could have gained 75lbs. and still wouldn't be tight.

What was the dummy gun? Was the model trying to convince people that they could carry a 5" 1911 down there? A Kahr PM9 versus a Hi-Power would be night and day, I should think. Did you catch the reactions/opinions of any others who were trying it out?

Southern_guy said:

You are going to blow your nuts off with that holster system.

Now, this is something I have never understood. Why do people think that a ND is any more likely with this carry method than with another? When the topic of SmartCarry or Thunderwear comes up, discussion of "mental blocks" and "anxiety" over carrying a weapon "down there" always follows sooner or later. Why? If you handle guns safely, they aren't going to fire themselves, whether on the belt, ankle, pocket or any other place. I have many questions and unaddressed concerns regarding SmartCarry, but this particular issue doesn't cause me one iota of worry. Frankly, it seems like a silly and purely emotional response to a nonexistent problem. Quite the contrary, I think if SmartCarry works for me, I'm going to feel all warm and fuzzy about having my piece down there .

Of course, maybe you were joking, but a didn't see an emoticon (not that one is needed). I'm not being dismissive of your comment, I'm just baffled because I've heard more or less the same many times before and never heard such a statement supported with any compelling arguments. Could you elaborate on why I'm soon going to be missing my rocket launchers ?

ATW and Erich said:

I find that I prefer a J frame in a pocket when I can't wear a belt holster, though. Same level of discreet as Smartcarry and much easier to access.

This is a real advantage over the pocket holster method - I have difficulty drawing from a pocket holster when I'm belted into my vehicle. Nevertheless, I use pocket holsters more frequently than SmartCarry - as I said in post #7 supra, it's not the most comfortable method of carry, though it's very low-pro (my wife also cannot tell when I'm SmartCarrying).

Ah yes, J-frame pocket carry. Been there, couldn't do that. Tried it with numerous holsters and there is no way to avoid either:

1) very obvious printing of the grip if a conventional holster is used, or

2) an unreasonably large "wallet" outline if using an oversized version of those holsters that place a rectangular piece of leather in front of the gun. On top of the extremely suspicious "huge wallet" look, the edges of the leather can't curl down around the outside of the gun in the grip area, which leaves it still sticking out like a sore thumb, as in 1) above, though of course the exact shape of it can't be detected. Just looks very weird and unnatural.

I certainly hope SmartCarry will be more discreet than pocket carry for a J-frame revolver. It has to be, right? There's a lot of room down there, now that I'm stopping to notice (yes, I know, let's try to keep this relatively serious ).

 

[Doyle]

J-framer, a Polish P-64 is similar to a PPK/s in shape. In most holsters, it uses the same one as Sig 230/232's.

 

[p99guy]

anything but the smallist of handguns and its going to look like your smuggling a brick down the front of your pants...pagerpals suffer from all the same problems..including racking yourself when you sit down....with all the readjusting you have to do on the pagerpal end of the genre...folks around work are going to think the new hobby you have taken up is touching yourself..thunderwear with a S&W compact 9mm looks like your hiding a midevil nobleman's codpeice under your work pants.

exept for a very narrow range of physical builds and small handguns...these type things are a heaping load of bovine droppings.( I speak from 21 years as a LEO and working in gunshops that sold both items, and have tried them)

 

[Southern_guy]

I consider it a bad idea to stick any pointy or semi-auto object down there. Even if it doesn't blow that off, the bullet could pierce the huge arteries in your legs.Since none of my pistols have safteys, that is a big concern for me. By the way, what's it going to look like to your friends when you begin unzipping your pants after they ask to see your gun?

 

[Erich]

Southern guy, you really need to handle one of these holsters. It is evident that you don't have any firsthand experience with them - all of your concerns have been addressed up-thread.

 

[Socrates]

I've got two of these, one medium, and one large. Thunderwear is the maker/style.

The big one has a pocket behind where the gun is to be carried. NOT good. Allows a large gun to sag forward, doesn't work. Get it without the behind pocket, or, plan on using a clip holster to mount to the holster, and, hold the gun.

In fact, you need a holster, something like a Mika Pocket holster to insure being able to get the gun out. In my medium holster, without the Mika pocket holster, the cylinder on my 360PD catches as I try to draw it, on the lip of the holster.
You'll also need to do a little sewing to hold the holster in place, if it doesn't fit, or, to cut the center divider out, move it over, and put the holster in place.

I've tried the following guns in it:
1911 Kimber Custom II full sized,
1911 Kimber Ultra II 3" barrel, short grip,
360PD.

1911's are ok standing. Only problem is the beavertail stabs you in the stomach when you sit down, and, it's REALLY uncomfortable. They do draw without the Mika holster, but, I still used a very thin leather clip on holster to make sure.

When I'm out of the financial woods a bit, I'd like to try a Glock 30, in 45 Super, in Thunderwear. The only concern is grip shape is important.

With the full sized 1911, the grip is sort of noticeable, unless it sits just right, under your belt, which will hide it.
The shorter grip on the UC reduces this problem.

Dark pants are real important with the larger guns.

My personal like in a 1911 is a 4.25" barrel, with the shortened grip, like the UC. It's called a CCO by Colt, and, Kimber makes a version. I'd like to try that, or a Bobtail, like the Dan Wesson, to see how they print.

My main concern would be weight. The straps are stretchy, and, given a normal gait, I'd be concerned the big guns look a bit weird. If S&W ever comes out with a CCO frame, in Scandium, I'd have to give it a real long look.

That said, for carry guns, they should be disposable, and cheap. That, to me, means Glock. Glocks don't have a beavertail, but, they don't have a manual safety, either.
Still, I carry a DA 360PD, and haven't shot myself yet with it..

The 360PD is about 12 oz, and shines in Thunderwear, complete with speed loader in the other half of the thunderwear. Guess I should actually get another speed loader for balance...

Anyway, as I said, needs a Mika holster to keep it in place, and insure the cylinder doesn't get caught on draw. Grips are vital. The morons at S&W put tiny RUBBER grips on the gun. They don't work for recoil, and, they catch, and hold on clothes, making printing easy to see. That, along with the auto lock, that locked my gun up around 150 rounds, 2000 dry fires, AND IT WAS NEVER TOUCHED, ALONG WITH THE COST, makes me think a 38 Special for half the money, in an airweight, would have been a better idea. Then I think about 148 grain bullets around 1200 fps, and, feel much better.
So, for about 30 bucks from Hogue, you can get a mono grip, that's nylon, longer, giving large hands a full grip on the snubby, and, conceals well.

I couldn't find a nylon version of the boot grip, but, cocobolo would work as well. Wouldn't catch, just expensive, and hard to hold on to. I ground the nylon grip down too far, but, it's very thin, doesn't stick out much at all, and, with a bobbed hammer, makes the 360 PD pretty much perfect for this kind of carry. Here's what it looked like before I started sanding on it:

Doesn't stick you in the stomach, etc. It could have an inch or two more barrel, I think, but then I wouldn't be able to throw it in my pocket, taking out the trash.

Guns I'd like to hear about in Thunderwear:
1911 Commander/CCO sized
Glock 29,30, or 36.
Any Sig 220, or smaller.
Detonics Mark VI or, their CCO sized gun.

Dr S

 

[NCHornet]

For deep concealment, other than pocket carry, the good old belly band is the best thing I have found. I don't want a gun down by the boys, if you know what I mean. I have used the belly band with several guns and have never been made. Drawing with the smart carry wiil make the BG think you have crabs!!! lol!!

 

[Socrates]

Haven't bought one, and I should, by Kangaroo, called the Airmarshall.
For 30 bucks, puts the gun under your arm pit. May have to try it...

Dr S

 

[bcarver]

grin

I find this so so so funny.
it has humor everywhere.
I would tape a gun to my forehead before carring in my crotch.

 

[j-framer]

Thanks all.

Socrates, I appreciate your taking the time to give me all that detailed information. Specifics are great in a situation like mine, where I'm trying to get a feel for just how much one can get away with in a Thunderwear-like rig.

It was very encouraging to hear you say this:

The 360PD is about 12 oz, and shines in Thunderwear, complete with speed loader in the other half of the thunderwear.

Notwithstanding those for whom Thunderwear doesn't work (I'm grateful for all useful input, pro or con, of course), my overall impression is still a strong positive. I believe I'll go ahead and send in my order, probably to SmartCarry.

NCHornet said:

For deep concealment, other than pocket carry, the good old belly band is the best thing I have found. I don't want a gun down by the boys, if you know what I mean. I have used the belly band with several guns and have never been made.

Belly bands concealed OK for me, but man does it bother me having an elastic band constricting my chest/stomach all day! Hot as Hades, too. (Is Hades supposed to be hot? )

And then the frosting on the cake:

I find this so so so funny.
it has humor everywhere.
I would tape a gun to my forehead before carring in my crotch.

Sigh...

Please, everyone, keep posting! Thanks.

 

[Socrates]

J-Framer

My pleasure. Just remember, don't get the version with the pocket in back, and, you might want to look at Robert Mika's pocket holsters, and order one to put in the smart carry.
http://www.frontiernet.net/~akim/pocket.htm

Just a thought, but, I do have one problem with the Smart Carry:
I was a fitness freak, and, used to have 30" thighs. As a friend would say, that doesn't leave much room in between your legs for much else, so, certain parts of your body are pushed out and forward, when your legs are together.

What I just did to all my pants was take them to a seamstress, and have her let them out as much as possible. This is usually 2 inches or so. That gives me enough bagginess so I can usually wear the Thunderwear without printing, or, with so little as to be undetected.

Hope this all helps. Still wonder if the Glock 30 is concealable, but, I don't have time to waste to find out, right now.

Dr S

PS
This is the large version I have, and, I find the valuables pocket allows the weight of the gun to pull the grip forward, and it prints more.


http://www.smartcarry.com/msecv.jpg
I have, as I said earlier, used a clip on holster to keep this pocket closed, when trying to conceal a full sized 1911.

One thing I do like is they improved on my version by moving the stiching off center, so the gun has more room, and the speed loader can be on the other side. This might make it possible not to have to use the Mika, or similar pocket holster, but, I wouldn't bet my life on it.

 

[mccgsm]

Smart Carry works for me

I'll add my 2 cents for Smart Carry; I've used one for 4 plus years now carrying Kahr pm9 or Kahr P9 Covert. Never been made; its not uncomfortable; easy enough to push to side when Mom Nature calls. Obviously not the fastest rig for a draw, but I value the concealment over playing quick draw. I tried Thunderwear first, it also worked but Smart Carry is much more durable (about 3 or 4 times longer lifespan) and sturdy without being detectable. I wear it 12-16 hours a day; generally buy pleated pants to help mask the outline, but even with jeans or gym shorts (no, I do NOT work out with it!) it has not been detected. Darn good setup with a small, flat auto.

 

[Dj Dust]

I don't know about smart carry but Thunderwear are totally comfortable even with a full size 1911. siting,standing,running, whatever. My only gripe is I don't want it to be that hard to get to the gun.

But with this you can even wear to the beach in nothing but shorts

 

[zeroskillz]

but I appeared to be very happy just to be there.

Now that's funny right there

 

[LightningJoe]

SmartCarry would be great for carrying your passport in a foreign country or something like that, but I wouldn't use it to carry a gun as long as I could legally carry. Developing situations rarely allow you to stick your hand down your pants (and keep it there while you scope out what's going on). SmartCarry would be great for retention with a small gun, but so's pocket carry. Also, pocket carry has enormous tactical advantages.


I say: pocket carry a small gun, anything up to and including a J-frame. .45 Auto is better than .32 Auto, but I start out with my gun in my hand, so I can get 2-3 rounds COM before the guy with the 1911 gets his gun out.

 

[j-framer]

Hello everybody, glad to see more input. I've been away for a couple days, during which I sent in my order to SmartCarry.

mccgsm wrote:

I tried Thunderwear first, it also worked but Smart Carry is much more durable (about 3 or 4 times longer lifespan) and sturdy without being detectable.

That's interesting. Glad I went with SmartCarry, then. Just out of curiosity, did the Thunderwear rig actually wear out on you? If so, what part(s) is first to go? Just off the top of my head, it doesn't seem that such a piece of equipment, worn in such a place, would see a lot of wear; but then again, sitting down and getting up many times a day probably makes the gun inside abrade the pouch material.

Dj Dust said:

I don't know about smart carry but Thunderwear are totally comfortable even with a full size 1911. siting,standing,running, whatever. My only gripe is I don't want it to be that hard to get to the gun.

Wow. A 5" 1911 . Unless you are a veritable giant, that's very encouraging, since it means a J-frame will likely be no problem for me. Charlie (president of SmartCarry) has pictures of himself carrying a full-size Ithaca 1911 in one of his large-size rigs, and he doesn't appear to be a very big person. The only thing I really can't understand is how you manage to sit with such a long handgun stuffed down there.

LightningJoe wrote:

SmartCarry would be great for retention with a small gun, but so's pocket carry. Also, pocket carry has enormous tactical advantages.

I say: pocket carry a small gun, anything up to and including a J-frame.

Wish I could. I would much prefer pocket carry, but I desperately want to go no lower than .38 +P, and that means a J-frame. Sadly, I cannot carry these satisfactorily concealed in a front pocket, for the reasons below, which I quote from one of my earlier posts here:

Ah yes, J-frame pocket carry. Been there, couldn't do that. Tried it with numerous holsters and there is no way to avoid either:

1) very obvious printing of the grip if a conventional holster is used, or

2) an unreasonably large "wallet" outline if using an oversized version of those holsters that place a rectangular piece of leather in front of the gun. On top of the extremely suspicious "huge wallet" look, the edges of the leather can't curl down around the outside of the gun in the grip area, which leaves it still sticking out like a sore thumb, as in 1) above, though of course the exact shape of it can't be detected. Just looks very weird and unnatural.

I certainly hope SmartCarry will be more discreet than pocket carry for a J-frame revolver.

I experiemented with about every innovation I could think of, and couldn't pull it off.

 

[Spenser]

Slightly off-topic, but I'm hearing good things about Galco's Skyops holster as an alternative to Thunderwear or Smartcarry. I'm tempted to try it.

 

[orionengnr]

I have two Smart Carry holsters. I posted recently on my experience, and if I can find it, I will copy and paste.

Long story short, I carried a steel 3" 44 Spl Taurus for seven days around July 4th of this year--all of this time was with shorts/t-shirt. Worked far better than I would have thought.

Something lighter and smaller would have worked even better. My Kahr PM9 would be about perfect.

FWIW, I'm 50 y.o., 5'9" and 140, and don't wear baggie/draggie pants.

Oh, and if you buy the larger size, a safety pin can temporarily adjust the sizing so you can try a different pistol for a day or two. Then throw a stitch in there to make it semi-permanent.

The weight of the Taurus did not stretch the straps after a week, and I was pleasantly surprised. That is probably a 36-40 oz pistol before you ad five rounds, and I added a speed loader with live more rounds in the opposing pouch pocket..

 

[j-framer]

Spenser wrote:

Slightly off-topic, but I'm hearing good things about Galco's Skyops holster as an alternative to Thunderwear or Smartcarry. I'm tempted to try it.

I went to Galco's site. The Skyops holster appears to be the most discreet of the numerous "tuckable" IWB holsters that I have seen advertised from a variety of makers. The anchoring strategy seems well executed and it is the only tuckable with a belt fastening system that looks as though it will withstand casual examination. Still, a gun between your belt and body will always make a considerable bulge, and I can't believe that it will not look as though you are either grossly deformed or carrying a weapon.

In any event, it's not really a viable choice in my case, as I'm trying to wean myself from IWB carry.

orionengnr said:

I have two Smart Carry holsters. I posted recently on my experience, and if I can find it, I will copy and paste.

That would be great. If you are unable to get back here, I'll search and see if I can turn up the post(s) you are referring to.

Something lighter and smaller would have worked even better. My Kahr PM9 would be about perfect.

FWIW, I'm 50 y.o., 5'9" and 140, and don't wear baggie/draggie pants.

Oh, and if you buy the larger size, a safety pin can temporarily adjust the sizing so you can try a different pistol for a day or two. Then throw a stitch in there to make it semi-permanent.

The weight of the Taurus did not stretch the straps after a week, and I was pleasantly surprised. That is probably a 36-40 oz pistol before you ad five rounds, and I added a speed loader with live more rounds in the opposing pouch pocket..

Good to see the positive experiences are still outstripping the negatives. That Taurus is a heavy gun, sheesh. But .44 Special, now that puts a smile on my face.... Why on earth can't there be sufficient demand for defensive guns in this caliber to warrant S&W's developing a 5-shot snub .44 Special in as small a package as possible and keeping it in production? This would be a dream firearm for me. I yearn for this all the time. It seems almost suspicious that the concept of a "big-bore J-frame" isn't more popular. Grrrr .

Back on topic: I am somewhat larger than you are, so as I've said before in this thread, it's continuing to sound as though a J-frame in a SmartCarry rig is realistic combination for me. Hope so, anyway!

 

[xrmattaz]

I carry either my Glock 19 or 5" Springer in the Smartcarry holster daily whilst hiking with the dogs, running errands, etc. Perhaps 3-5 hours daily. I've even ridden my mountain bike twenty miles or so in some crazy rocky terrain.

Charlie (Smartcarry) instructs you to wear the holster very low in the crotch area, but myself, and many I have spoken with, prefer to carry with the grip of the pistol directly underneath the belt. This time of year, my daily apparel (when not working) consists of a pair of Arizona Jeans camo shorts with an untucked Tshirt. Either of my preferred carry weapons are undetectable. When I've tried to carry with pistol low in the crotch, I've experienced discomfort.

When I go to the bathroom, I unbutton/unzip and pull the bottom of the Smartcarry straight out toward the toilet/urinal....Johnson does his job, then everything else is tucked back in.

I can't imagine the ease of carrying a smaller (J-frame???) firearm with this system, that would just be silly easy.