Thunderwear: What's the real story?

[j-framer]

For years I was a belt carrier, IWB to be exact. Since I've been suffering some back strain in the past year or so, I've taken to exploring ever less conventional methods of non-belt carry, ranging from pocket holsters to ankle holsters to belly bands. I'm making do, but have yet to find a solution that puts a big smile on my face.

For me, one of the last frontiers of concealed carry methods, the one that I have yet to try at all, is crotch carry. I understand that Thunderwear and SmartCarry are the two big makers of underwear holsters, if that's what the category is called.

I searched and saw that there were no very recent threads (first 2 pages of results) dealing exclusively with discussion of Thunderwear or its clones. It receives sporadic mention, usually in a broad-topic thread such as "What is your everyday carry method" and "How to conceal xxxxx?"

The questions: Who here uses Thunderwear? How well does it work for you? What gun(s) do you carry this way? How do you cope with the inconvenience of going to the bathroom (no urinals, I guess)?

By the way, my intended carry is a J-frame (of course ).

I don't know why it has taken me this long to decide to seriously investigate/try Thunderwear. But, after looking at Thunderwear's website http://www.thunderwear.com/ for the last day or so, and after recalling bits and pieces of past discussions on unconventional carry methods, I'm experiencing a sudden, subdued sense of exhiliration in suspecting that the perfect concealed carry method may be lurking right under my nose (perfect except for the bathroom inconvenience noted above, that is).

Am I wrong? Is there something I'm missing?

Please, weigh in!

 

[Muddflap]

For what it's worth, I'll toss out my nickels worth. I bought a Smartcarry several months ago. Looked at all the pictures on the web site, and talked to Charlie on the phone. He is a very nice gentleman, and very helpful. I wanted one for my 239, and 229 Sig. The medium was the size he recommended for both. If I remember right, the holster arrived in just a little over a week. It looked well put together, and the materials were high quality.

I am 5' 11", and weigh about 210. I am overweight, but I don't consider myself fat. I do have a bit of a belly though. Anyway I put it on, according to the instructions, shoved my 229 in the pouch, and pulled my pants up. The end of the grip made a pretty large bulge, right below my belt, but it covered easily with my shirt tail out. So far I was pretty happy, then I tried to sit down. That was wrong, and I only tried it once. I can't imagine a full sized 1911 in my pants, the Sig was plenty big. Then I decided to try the 239. It's a little smaller than the 229. It's thinner, and the grip is shorter, so the bulge, below my belt, wasn't as bad. I could sit down, but I appeared to be very happy just to be there. Didn't take long to decide that I didn't want that kind of attention.

In the end, I can carry my 642, and my PM9 with a minimum amout of discomfort. There have been lots of reviews on the Smartcarry, and I seem to be one of the exceptions. Most people seem to be very happy with it. Maybe I'm just built short from the belly button to the crotch. Pocket carry and the 642 seem to work best for me if I can't wear a holster. If the 642 is too big, there's always the P3AT.

By the way, the bathroom is not a problem. The Smartcarry is not strapped on real tight, and it is easy to move it to the side throught your zipper. I think there are instructions on the Smartcarry site.

 

[JohnKSa]

Needs to be a small gun with no corners and you will have to experiment with the precise position of the gun or you won't be able to sit down or bend over.

Using the bathroom is no problem at all. Try it a few times at home and you'll figure it out.

I can carry all day in this mode with a Walther PPK and since I dehorned the gun it's pretty comfortable.

 

[RevolverLover]

Have you looked at appendix carry with a vertical/o-cant IWB holster?

 

[j-framer]

Thank you everybody.

Have you looked at appendix carry with a vertical/o-cant IWB holster?

I have tried carrying in that position, though it was long ago and was not undertaken as a solution to any back problems. IWB appendix carry is really not my cup of tea at all. For whatever reason, I find it very awkward and uncomfortable to have all that hard material between my belt and my abdomen, far moreso than strong-side IWB.

In addition, I'm trying to hit upon methods that will permit my shirt to be tucked in on a permanent basis, without having to dress around the gun. In other words, I want an "always" rig that stays on no matter what attire my particular situation, or the season, calls for.

Therefore, I'm pretty much resolved to try Thunderwear or Smartcarry, but would like to gather as many opinions as possible. Also, something I didn't ask in my original post was whether there one of the above holsters is better than the other for any reason. Any experience with both, or know anybody who has?

Step right up, folks! There are more of you out there who use these products, I know it! As I mentioned up top, there is fairly frequent mention of Thunderwear or Smartcarry on other concealed carry-related threads. It's just not condensed into a dedicated thread, as far as I could see.

Once, I'm almost sure, I saw a photo posted on TFL from someone who carried an SP101 in a Smartcarry rig. I'd be interested to hear from such a guy/gal about how a moderately heavy gun like that carries; from the descriptions on the manufacturers' sites regarding how the rig is supported (around the hipbones, they say), I would imagine that one can comfortably carry considerably more weight than might first be thought.

But on the other hand, I don't think it would be practical to stuff a Hi-Power down there, as Thunderwear claims you can . But then, maybe on a big guy....

 

[Manedwolf]

It works fine for me with a PT745, worn under looser cargo jeans. It just needs to be positioned right, and to me, works best with a slender semiauto.

I'm also somewhat slender, so I can't carry more than that without it definitely showing...and I would NOT carry anything but a DAO with a safety or a revolver in it, just because of where the muzzle is pointing.

 

[Erich]

I also use SmartCarry (5'9", 168 lbs), but not as frequently now as in the past. It's a very good low-pro carry method, and I find it's a good way to carry in business clothes (since I would look odd if I did not ever take my suitcoat off). I find it requires a smaller gun to avoid the "tumor" look. J-frames work fine.

I don't find it to be as comfortable as IWB appendix carry. With SmartCarry, your muzzle is pointed between your legs, away from your schwantz (which is behind the rig) - it's totally safe - probably more so than appendix carry where your muzzle points at your femoral artery (I only use DA guns with their hammers down for appendix IWB because of this - no striker-fired guns or SAs).

Urinals are no problem with SC: you pop your top button, unzip, flip the SC up and away from your bod (it points toward the urinal), and do your business. It comes totally naturally after the first couple of times you do it.

 

[Breakdaddy]

Smartcarry has worked well for me with my Kahr PM9 and fairly well with my XD9SC. I have to position the pistol a bit off center for best comfort, but it's easy to get used to.

 

[JN01]

Smartcarry has a vapor barrier to protect your gun and also has a 60 day trial, money back guarantee period.

 

[Gary_M]

The best solution is to.......

....strengthen your back! Then you can carry however you please.

< Sorry...I know this is not a direct answer to your question, but it seems relevant >

I used to have all sorts of back problems which put me in similar situations trying to solve the problem, but what I was really doing is accomodating my weak back. Stregthen those muscles and your whole body will thank you!

My 2 favorites: Dead Lifts, 2-Handed Kettlebell Swings.

Good Luck to you!
-Gary

P.S. - Thunderwear?!? Hahahahaha.

 

[j-framer]

Thanks everyone, I think I'm leaning towards SmartCarry over Thunderwear. Charlie's site has some very informative pictures and a video showing one of his customers wearing a rig with an XD-9 subcompact, I think.

I like what I see so far. I only wish that I could get more of a handle on how low a J-frame would ride in rigs of various sizes, like a small vs. a large. On the Smartcarry site the guy stipulates that the "proper" fit is when the entire grip of the gun protrudes above the pouch. But I wonder if some speed of access couldn't be traded for additional concealment by getting a larger size than is recommended for my gun. Would the larger pouch let the gun drop lower in the crotch, even at the cost of burying some of the grip?

From carefully examining photos (and plain common sense), it seems that the likelihood of printing increases as the gun butt gets higher up (closer to the belt). I guess it depends on where the maker's reference, or starting, point is when making different sizes; do both small and large sizes start as low as possible, with the large one simply ending closer to belt height? Or do both small and large start a given distance below the belt, with the large dropping lower to create additional room (what I was referring to above)?

It would be fantastic to see some photos of personal rigs with the guns in them, but that would be over and above the call of duty .

....strengthen your back! Then you can carry however you please.

< Sorry...I know this is not a direct answer to your question, but it seems relevant >

I used to have all sorts of back problems which put me in similar situations trying to solve the problem, but what I was really doing is accomodating my weak back. Stregthen those muscles and your whole body will thank you!

My 2 favorites: Dead Lifts, 2-Handed Kettlebell Swings.

Though I'm not a doctor, I am convinced that the issue is a structural/skeletal one, and not related to overall strength or muscle mass. Putting a sizable chunk of metal between one's belt and hip and then grinding away day after day, year after year, cannot be a good thing, speaking from a purely mechanical viewpoint. Our bodies are not meant to encounter such an asymmetrical, unyielding resistance in that location when engaged in normal activities like walking or manual labor. Legs are heavy and long, with a lot of inertia once set in motion, and they create a substantial moment about your hip joints as you move around. Force a large, hard object against that joint with belt pressure when you are moving, and you essentially have a powerful lever (leg) that's being used to grind a rock into your hip joint several thousand times a day. Like one of those lemon squeezers . Don't want to do that anymore.

As I said originally, I'm not sure that IWB carry is responsible for any back problems (and mine are really very minor, just occasional stiffness low down), but I want to work on reducing dependence on it regardless.

In addition, there's the other, very important goal of finally getting a carry method that is good for any kind of clothing I can expect to be wearing, whether a suit or jeans and tee shirt. This is a priority, and I'd likely be considering Thunderwear/SmartCarry for this reason alone, even if my back had never bothered me a bit.

To top it all off, I have lifted weights religiously for years, many more than I have been carrying. Physical fitness is a minor obsession for me. I carry quite a bit of bulk for someone my height, particularly considering my advancing years . If IWB works for you, that's great, but I'm at the point where I want to count my blessings and not push my luck by risking orthopedic misery in future years. Pocket carry and Thunderwear at least involve no pressure on joints, and that is comforting.

Boy, how did this get so long?

 

[nutty ned]

Under some situations they may be ok, but, if you can sit down you'll probably have to stand up to draw the gun.

 

[DoItRight]

... I could sit down, but I appeared to be very happy just to be there ...

ROFL!

That's VERY funny!

 

[Doyle]

I've got a smart carry. I've used it with my Polish P-64. As long as I'm standing, it is great. The problem is when I get in the car. The angle makes sitting in the car with it on uncomfortable. Also, while seatbelted in I could never get the gun out.

 

[ZeSpectre]

Have a smartcarry and like it fine though it certainly doesn't solve all issues.

Firstly, it's DEEP concealment. The good side of that is you can carry just about anyplace (unless they have a metal detector). The bad side is that retrieval is VERY slow (and damned near impossible with a seatbelt on).

They say you can carry pretty much anything. Sorry but that is just NOT true if you have a belly.

I -can- carry my XD-40 service model (4" barrel) but it is NOT comfortable and I'm always arguing with the end of the butt. They say "lower the holster" which helps but I'd have to put it down my pantleg to avoid the butt of that XD. On the other hand my Taurus Millennium Pro fits fine and I can carry that whenever with no discomfort, it just falls into place. My P-3AT requires some safety pinning of the holster or it gets lost

Bulges... Well, in my experience that really depends on your build and the pants you are wearing. My pleated dress pants conceal fine. My tan, flat-front dockers make me look really happy to see people

 

[rgates]

I was at a gun show where a guy was showing and demonstrating the Smart Carry. Was actually letting people try it with a rubber dummy gun. I gave it a try and there is no way. The dummy gun was not nearly as heavy as even my Makarov and was about the most uncomfortable device I think I have ever tried. I tried to sit with it but on the way down was causing too much pain so I never made it all the way down. Now I don't wear very tight clothing but I don't wear pants that the crotch rides at my knees either. The guy demonstrating the thing's pants were so baggy he could have gained 75lbs. and still wouldn't be tight. That was painfull enough I won't try anything like it again. Good luck.

 

[Bob O]

Kel-Tec P-3AT with ArmaLaser and two spare mags. loaded with a mix of expanding and non-expanding ammo carried in a SmartCarry holster 24/7.

I don’t even think about it most of the time. It’s no more strange or uncomfortable than the change in my pocket.

I got this combination for a few reasons. Two of the main ones are;
First, I wanted something I could carry comfortably and completely concealed 24/7.
Second, my wife is uncomfortable around guns and I didn’t want her uncomfortable around me. Even she hasn’t “made me” yet and I have been carrying this way for over a year and a half now.

To facilitate this type of carry I buy pants one size larger in the waist and wear suspenders under an untucked shirt. This makes it very easy to reach in and draw. It's a three step draw:
1. With strong hand lift shirt waist.
2. With weak hand hook pant waist with thumb and pull out while sucking in gut.
3. Slide strong hand down and in.
I can consistently draw and be on target less than 1.5 seconds. Not blinding, but not bad.

How it looks untucked and "tucked":

 

[Southern_guy]

You are going to blow your nuts off with that holster system.

 

[ATW525]

Even she hasn’t “made me” yet and I have been carrying this way for over a year and a half now.

You've been carrying in Smartcarry for over a year and half and your wife hasn't discovered it? Wow... I guess it's true what they say about how things go after marriage...

On a serious note, I use Smartcarry on occassion myself. I find that I prefer a J frame in a pocket when I can't wear a belt holster, though. Same level of discreet as Smartcarry and much easier to access.

 

[Erich]

You are going to blow your nuts off with that holster system.

Typical reaction, but not an informed one. This poster needs to read my post above and perhaps examine the holster in person. The gun is in front of your genitalia. It points down between your legs, and does not cover any part of your body when the holster is worn.

I have no problem drawing the gun when seated or standing. Perhaps I'm trimmer than those who have issues. This is a real advantage over the pocket holster method - I have difficulty drawing from a pocket holster when I'm belted into my vehicle. Nevertheless, I use pocket holsters more frequently than SmartCarry - as I said in post #7 supra, it's not the most comfortable method of carry, though it's very low-pro (my wife also cannot tell when I'm SmartCarrying).