Thoughts on this...

[Sharkbite]

Ive got a 9" bbl AAC upper in 300 blackout on a pistol lower. Im waiting on my form 1 to come back on a rifle lower to SBR it (might be 6-9 months). So im thinking about getting one of the Sig arm braces to put on until then.

My other thought is that when i travel with the little beast i can use the pistol lower with the brace and not have to hassle with ATF permission to take it outta state

Third, if i use it as a HD gun i would rather have a pistol lower taken as evidence (if it came to that) then have a tax stamped lower.

Any thoughts on this plan??

 

[Theohazard]

Any thoughts on this plan??

Seems like a good idea to me. Many people are using the SIG arm brace to replace the need to SBR it altogether; it works just as well as a stock and the only real downside is that it's not easily adjustable.

 

[Sharkbite]

Thanks for the reply. Ive got one ordered. Now i just gotta figure out where i put that standard pistol buffer tube

 

[Coach Z]

You still need the pistol buffer tube

I just got one of the sig braces and it is just the molded plastic that slides onto your existing buffer tube so you'll need that existing tube.

One issue I ran into was my pistol buffer tube (Phase 5) was bigger then then the average pistol buffer tube and it wouldn't fit on so I had to get a smaller diameter buffer tube for the sig brace to work.

 

[Sharkbite]

I went out to the storage shed and found both a standard pistol buffer tube and an A1 tube. Im going to try em both and see which i like best for LOP. I mean which feels best attached to my arm

 

[Theohazard]

I wouldn't use that A1 buffer tube if I were you. The use of any buffer tube that is designed to accept a stock will make it an unregistered SBR, which is why you can't use a normal carbine buffer tube on a pistol unless you machine off the notches and make it incapable of accepting a stock.

Considering a rifle buffer tube can also be used to attach a stock, if you put an un-modified A1 buffer tube on a pistol the BATFE will consider it an unregistered SBR. They make pistol buffer tubes for a reason; they're not designed to accept any kind of stock.

 

[Sharkbite]

Beg to differ

With the case of thompson/center vs US. The courts ruled that a firearm registered as a pistol can be made into a rifle by the addition of a 16"+ barrel and then have a stock attached. It can then be made back into a pistol by reversing the process. Case law here, not legal conjecture.

With an AR type firearme the process is remove the pistol length upper.. Put on the 16" upper and then slide your stock on. As long as the "short" upper and stock are never on at the same time, all is legal.

Having a carbine buffer tube on a pistol lower is 100% legal and facilatates this process.

 

[Theohazard]

I think youre misunderstanding me here; I'm talking about in the meantime while it's still a pistol and you're waiting for your Form 1 to come in.

Having a carbine or rifle buffer tube on it while it has a barrel shorter than 16" will make it an SBR. It doesnt matter if you have a stock on it yet; simply having a tube that can accept a stock counts as a stock.

If you use that A1 buffer tube with your 9" Blackout upper it will be illegal. But you could use that A1 buffer tube as long as you have a 16" upper on it.

Of course, all this will be legal once your Form 1 comes back.

 

[Sharkbite]

Id sure love to know where you got that info. As i said there is a court case that states the ability to turn your pistol into a rife is perfectly legal. As long as the short bbl is not on at the same time as the stock

I beleive there is a letter from BATF clarifing that ANY buffer tube is legal on a pistol. You just cant have the stock on the tube

This is legal fact. These forums are riff with personal conjecture and conclusions not based in fact.

The case is Thompson/Center vs. US

SHORT version is avail with a quick search

Not trying to argue with you but the facts are other then you are stating

 

[Theohazard]

Id sure love to know where you got that info. As i said there is a court case that states the ability to turn your pistol into a rife is perfectly legal. As long as the short bbl is not on at the same time as the stock

My info is 100% correct. I'm not talking about turning a rifle into a pistol or vice- versa. I'm talking about putting a stock or a buffer tube that can accept a stock on a pistol with a barrel shorter than 16" before your Form 1 comes back.

Not trying to argue with you but the facts are other then you are stating

No, my facts are correct. You're just not understanding what I'm trying to say.

 

[Theohazard]

I beleive there is a letter from BATF clarifing that ANY buffer tube is legal on a pistol. You just cant have the stock on the tube

Show me this letter. If this is the case then I'd like to see it because it would have to be pretty recent. And if this is the case why would anyone need a pistol buffer tube?

 

[Sharkbite]

Brother...

I absolutly understand what you are saying.

Here is a link to the BATF letter stating ANY buffer tube is ok on a pistol. And the fact that the buffer tube is capable of accecpting a stock does not make it a stock in and of it self

http://www.kwikrnu.com/BATFE%20opin...uffer%20tube%20and%20conversion%2010-3-11.pdf

I added a pic of the pertinent part of the letter as well. Its dated sometime in 2011 if i recall.

 

[Theohazard]

OK, you didn't know what I was saying because you kept referring to the Thompson case regarding turning a rife into a pistol. I wasn't talking about that at all. I was saying that the BATFE regards a buffer tube that can accept a stock as a stock.

I haven't read your link yet, but I'm prepared to admit I'm wrong on that. But your initial objections had absolutly nothing to do with what I was talking about; it wasn't until you mentioned the letter that you actually addressed what I was saying.

 

[Tom Servo]

Sharkbite, your link to the ATF letter is dead. Do you have another source? I don't recall seeing anything like this in their newsletters over the last few years.

 

[Theohazard]

OK. Your link didn't work, but your photo did. If that photo is correct then I'll admit I was wrong on that, though it still looks like it's a bad idea to use a carbine or buffer rifle tube if you even possess the stock at all, because it says if you do you could be nabbed for possession of an SBR. So it may not be 100% illegal like I said, but it could easily be illegal if you simply own a stock for it.

I wish you had shown me that BATFE letter sooner instead of going off on a tangent about stuff I wasn't talking about. But I still thank you for the correction. From now on I'll simply say it could be considered constructive possession to use a carbine buffer tube on a pistol.

 

[Sharkbite]

If you scroll thru AR15.coms pistol section there is a sticky of ATF letters. Pg 2 has the link to the buffer tube letter.

The T/C case is relavent due to the carbine buffer tube being needed to go back and forth. Whatever... The letter should clear it up


No harm in a lively discussion. Merry Christmas eve all

 

[Theohazard]

The T/C case is relavent due to the carbine buffer tube being needed to go back and forth. Whatever... The letter should clear it up

I already knew about the T/C case; trust me, I wasn't referring to that. But I was referring to what that letter was talking about; thanks for clearing that up. I'll admit that I was wrong that the BATFE says a buffer tube that can accept a stock is the same as a stock. But it still looks like it's a bad idea to use one on a pistol; how many people own a carbine or rifle buffer tube but don't own a stock that goes with it? And if you simply own that stock the BATFE said they can still nab you for possession of an SBR.

No harm in a lively discussion. Merry Christmas eve all

Yep, no harm at all! Merry Christmas, my friend!

 

[Coach Z]

Beyond the bickering I can tell you definitively that the sig brace WILL NOT WORK on a standard stock buffer A1 A2 or carbine. It will only accept a round tube :

From the sig website....

Features
• Fits all pistols equipped with an AR-style buffer tube 1.0" - 1.2" in diameter.

 

[Sharkbite]

Does anybody know the diff between an A1 tube and the above mentioned sig brace tube?

I know the A1 is longer, but that seems it would only effect LOP. Is there a diameter diff that would make it not fit?

I may have lept before i looked enough

 

[Theohazard]

I can tell you definitively that the sig brace WILL NOT WORK on a standard stock buffer A1 A2 or carbine. It will only accept a round tube

It fits great on a standard carbine buffer tube if you machine off the notches for the stock. And you can even leave on a small section at the front so the arm brace can index at the front of it and not slide too close to the upper receiver. And since the notches are gone it can no longer accept a normal stock so there shouldn't be any fear of getting busted for possession of SBR parts.

It wil also fit on a regular rifle buffer tube but you need to add something to it (tape or something) to make the diameter a little larger so it fits tighter. And of course you'd have to modify a rifle buffer tube also if you wanted to avoid the possession issue.

Does anybody know the diff between an A1 tube and the above mentioned sig brace tube?

Besides being longer, it's also thinner so you need tape or something to make it fit tighter. It also can accept a stock, whereas the pistol buffer tube can't.