Thoughts on carbines?

[bamaranger]

capacity

Magazine capacity can matter, but not usually and not likely. You can't count on that of course, and I would rather have enough or more sufficient moderately powered rounds, than a shortage of more powerful ones.

With the jump to .44 mag, the power factor inside 100 yds is probably near equal enough to level the playing field energy wise, and so round count/capacity would be the deciding factor. The .357 lags behind the 30/30 enough to muddy the water in discussion, but as noted, a heavy .357 from a carbine is serious medicine none the less.

Capacity was likely on the minds of the shooters that chose the longer barreled versions of the lever gun at the height of the actions popularity. The long barreled rifle caliber levers bump capacity up accordingly, at the expense of length and weight. The long sight radius would help with irons or a peep, but portability would suffer.

 

[bamaranger]

unspoken

One issue on this topic you don't hear much about is what I'll call sustained fire. Again not usually an issue. But.....

With a lever, all you need is ammo. In your pocket, a cartridge belt, on a bando, slung around your neck in a pouch, in the darn factory box.....whatever. No magazine required. Just ammo.

For the AR and all rifles (handguns too) that are box fed, you need a mag. Or should I say multiple mags. Mags get lost, mags get damaged.....etc. Any of that happens, you need another mag, right then. They are detachable.......... Can I be the only person to leave the truck with a rifle, and be half way to a stand, and realize that the mag for the gun is in my other truck or jacket, and I now have an extremely accurate and powerful SINGLESHOT. Heck the AR mag is almost likely made to be disposable, with the GI counting on resupply.

How many AR guys leave the truck for a ramble with multiple mags? Sure, there's always a few that "tac up", but I bet most take one....maybe a second stuffed in a back pocket....maybe.

 

[dakota.potts]

I would MUCH rather have a .30-30 round in a lever gun, even if it was only 6 shots. If you can't solve it with six, you better learn how to shoot because you'll probably be dead before you can solve it with more.

Better range with less drop over a .357 magnum, and yes, it's quite a bit more power. The damage that those soft tip .30-30s can do is impressive to say the least.

While a .357 lever gun isn't bad out to 75-100 yards, the .30-30 will keep there heads down well past 200. The larger .30-30 shells are also much easier to manipulate for fast reloads in the field.

Save the .357s for a handgun and use a REAL rifle cartridge: .30-30.

Lot of platitudes in here that sound and probably feel good, but I'm not sure I agree with the substance.

There are already on record shooting scenarios where six rounds from a "real" cartridge has failed to stop a determined attacker, or instances where even law enforcement officers have missed 6 or 7 shots from shotguns at near contact range. More ammunition is better in these engagements.

Since your friend is talking about it as a "combat" rifle, I assume it's meant for use even in very bad times. Were I to somehow find myself in the middle of a situation like Ferguson, Baltimore, Charlotte, LA, Katrina etc. I would probably find myself wanting the .357. Plenty capable with defensive ammunition, light, and more rounds on tap. .357 can be used with lighter .38 rounds for inside the house use if desired as well. A rifle with a capable round and usable iron sights, decent amount of ammunition and easy follow up capability sounds like a good thing to me. Even in situations like this, I really can't imagine taking shots beyond 50 or (really stretching here) 100 yards. Talking about keeping peoples' heads down at 200 yards? Even if the situation did present itself, have you tried shooting a .30-30 at 200 yards? I'm not even confident I could place my front post on something at 200 yards considering the standard front posts on the marlin take up an impressive amount of your sight picture at only 100 yards.

For what it's worth, I think either would be pretty good. I've long said that lever actions would be a good defensive ammo between capable cartridges, quick action, easy handling, etc. They're unlikely to be targeted by any type of assault weapons ban and can be easily found just about anywhere, and they're pretty easy to use (some not even having the manual safety)

 

[Desert Dog]

I never feel undergunned with my Puma 454. Body armor? LOL.

No, I don't need 30-30, even though I have a really nice 1953 Winchester 94 that lives in the gun safe.

 

[ballisti]

If I were going to have one lever action rifle, it would be a Marlin in 35 Remington.

 

[jetinteriorguy]

I'd feel plenty well armed with either my .357 or my .41 Henry. I'd prefer the .41 if readily available commercial ammo isn't a consideration, but feel perfectly fine with the .357 in any situation. Plus the added benefit of my revolver as a backup with either one, so in the .41 that makes 17 rounds and the .357 with my M627 comes to 19 rounds available. Or I can grab my JR Carbine with a couple 32 round mags and go to town.

 

[salt and battery]

I love 30-30 levers but the bad part about levers is they are complicated actions with a lot that can go wrong

 

[Screwball]

I have a .30-30 Glenfield, but not a regularly used gun. Cannot hunt with rifles in NJ, so moot point. My father saw it for sale from a friend who was in our hunting club, and was a birthday present for myself. He did grab a .357 Marlin, which is a nice gun.

I'm not partial to .357, being I like the .44 more (when you compare the power jump from the Specials of each to the Magnum, I feel .44 Magnum is superior; and for all the years I've shot it, it is an accurate round). Add in you mentioning defense, I'd go semi-auto. I just picked up a Ruger Deerstalker .44 Carbine, which has a four shot tube. I wouldn't feel undergunned, if I also had my 6" S&W 629-1 on my hip. Would like a Beretta CX4/PX4 even more... my AR and a CZ SP01 would top that. [emoji41]

 

[44 AMP]

I would choose the lever gun (I have both .30-30 and .357 Marlins) if your home is mobile, they are pretty good choices, though inside, I think the .357 would be better.

I had one of the Marlin .357 carbines ages ago, my father in law liked it so much, I gave it to him for Christmas. For him, it was about perfect. He was not a 'gun person" but did know how to handle a lever action.

And he spent a lot of time travelling and camping in his truck camper. The Marlin gave him a short, light, handy rifle, in a proven effective caliber, and WITHOUT the various and often confusing state laws covering handguns (and later "assault weapons".

Simply put, it was a gun he could travel with, in his camper, without complicated legal issues. And, as far as I know, it still is today.

 

[Old Bill Dibble]

For your purpose they are near enough the same that either one would work equally well for terminal ballistics.

I'd go with the .357 as it is lighter recoil and you can practice and plink with .38s. There are also better choices for HD ammo out there, you can carry and buy box of 50 .357 rounds easier and cheaper than .30-30.

The only point of of the .30-30 would be in the ultra rare case of defensive uses past 50 yards. These simply don't come up often enough to be a big concern.

 

[Hook686]

I sold all my lever guns except the Marlin 1894c ... the .357 magnum. That was my choice for the OP question.

 

[kraigwy]

I'll stick to my revolver for home defense,

But I do like the Lever Carbines. I have a Marlin '94 carbine 38/357 that is a heck of a lot of fun to shoot.

As much as I like it, its not where near as fun as my wife's 1929 Version of the Model 94 saddle ring carbine, 30-30.

The thing about these guns is you can shoot cast bullets. I can load 38/357 cheaper then I can shoot 22 RFs.

Same with the 30-30 using cast bullets. Same thing with my USGI Underwood M1 Carbine.

Carbines are a kick in the butt for plinking or small game.

 

[ballisti]

Note that one can load a more powerful cartridge down - but you cannot load a less powerful cartridge up.

 

[Guv]

The 125gr Federal 30-30 load is very nasty on medium smaller game/feral animals. I would imagine an intruder taking one of these would not go very far.

 

[jmorris]

I have 30-30 and 357 lever guns, if I don't know what I might need one for I grab the 30-30 because it is a more capable round in both range and energy and I have never emptied a tube of 30-30 killing things yet.

 

[Pilot]

I have a 30-30 Marlin 336 that I've had for years, and hunt deer with it. However, it is not my HD rifle. I have a GI M1 Carbine that I keep loaded and a Colt M4 as well for this purpose. Both are considered carbines, and I would tend to pick up the M1 first just due to the noise and muzzle blast of the M4's 5.56 rounds. I would also think that firing a 30-30 indoors would be disorienting.

 

[mehavey]

The subject was "carbines" for all [r/s]easons:

Think Beowulf.








Now back to our regularly-scheduled program.....
(Film at Eleven.)

 

[dgludwig]

QUOTE: "...Can I be the only person to leave the truck with a rifle, and be half way to a stand, and realize that the mag for the gun is in my other truck or jacket (?)..."

Maybe, if my experience hunting for over fifty years, many times with a rifle having a detachable magazine, is any indicator. I guess you could even forget your gun if you didn't remember it...

 

[Auto5]

Had to leave my modern sporting rifles behind when I lived in a jurisdiction that banned scary looking guns. Picked up a 10 shot Rossi M92 in .44 mag. Handy, fun to shoot and paired well with my 5.5 inch Super Blackhawk. Still my favorite brush gun for hogs.

 

[COSteve]

I've got both a 20" and 24" Rossi 357mag as well as a 30-30. The 357mag Rossi Carbine has some real advantages over a 30-30.

First, The 20" carbine holds more ammo than a 20" 30-30 (With a trimmed mag spring, my Rossi carbine hold 11+1 rds of 357mag ammo while my 30-30 only holds 6+1 rds).

Second, it's lighter recoiling with less muzzle flash which is an advantage inside in a HD setting.

Third, the 357 has a larger diameter, heavier bullet (a 35 cal, 158grn bullet vs a 30 cal, 150grn bullet) which produces a larger wound cavity at such close range. Further, it's larger metplate nose 'smacks' the bad guy harder at such close ranges.

Fourth, using a round like Buffalo Bore's 158grn Heavy 357mag load at HD ranges of no more than 25-30ft, the Rossi produces 2,153fps and 1,626ft/lbs of ME, only 200fps slower and 225ft/lbs of ME less than a 150grn 30-30.

For comparison, the 357mag produces significantly more ME than the significantly smaller and lighter 55grn AR rd at 3,200fps (only 1,255ft/lbs of ME) so it's actually the better ballistic choice over the 30-30 and the AR (however, as a semi-auto, the AR has a multiple rd speed advantage).