This Stat ought to scare people

[mehavey]

https://www.foxnews.com/official-polls/fox-news-poll-voters-voice-support-gun-reform

The immediate implications and processes would effectively shut down a not insignificant
fraction of current sources to most people -- and overwhelm the NICS system while doing so.

But also slide into sale of components as a logical "next step"

Remember... Both Mobs & Lemmings once energized -- don't let facts stand in their way.

 

[44 AMP]

The problem with polls (like this one, and others) is that we never get told WHO gets asked, and WHAT they get asked.

Most often what gets asked is the primary determining factor. They ask a question, and provide choices without explanation of just what the choices mean.

For an example (extreme for illustration),

Ask people if they are in favor of background checks for X and you'll get one kind of response.

Ask them if they are in favor of requiring governmental investigation, possible wait times, expense, and possible denial before being permitted to exercise a constitutional right, and I think you'll find a different kind of response.

 

[mehavey]

...never get told WHO gets asked, and WHAT they get asked....

Unfortunately, that's irrelevant.

The Hill staffer simply totals up the published statistic...
Writes up a Point Paper . . . .
Hands it to his principal . . .

And says "Boss, you're on the side of the angels...."
and the otherwise-fence-sitting Legislator goes out and votes "Yea" on the Background Check.

The real question, the real context, the real nuances of this poll don't matter.
"80% of the GAP want Background Checks on ammunition"

...and truth is no defense.

 

[44 AMP]

Its relative to me...

consider this (extreme for illustration)

poll question:

"If the election were held tomorrow, who would you vote for?"

A)Santa Claus

B) The Easter Bunny

C) Joe Biden

Now, a lot of people who wouldn't choose Biden in a real election will say Biden because the other choices aren't real.
Assuming Biden was the majority choice (and these days, its not a given )

the headline could (technically) accurately say "Biden favored in future Presidential race"....

I think the questions matter along with the offered choices for answers. On the other hand, I'm also a big fan of the truth, and that seems to make me irrelevant these days...

 

[Tom Servo]

There's a gulf between what people tell pollsters and how they actually vote.

 

[mehavey]

Voters don't vote on gun control law at this point,
The politicos vote... and are now in stampede mode.
. . . and staffers and their prep sheets run the politicos.

But don't anyone..... preserve the fiction.

 

[stagpanther]

Fox news poll--they have a vested interest in keeping the population scared poop-less and stirring up the pot to get everyone ready to start shooting up everyone else. I don't pay attention to anything they say, garbage.

 

[HiBC]

I agree. A primary function of the news media is to keep us in a state of fear.

We have become a fear motivated society.

An ability to assess and deal with the fears is a good idea.

If I'm walking down a trail and hear a rattlesnake buzz, I appreciate the snake's courtesy. I might go look at it. But they don't shoot or fly. I'll pay attention and be at peace.

What can you do about the numbers? Communicate with your elected officials.
Vote in your primary.

Ever heard of the Serenity Prayer? The things you can change,the things you can't change,and the Wisdom to know the difference?

It may come to pass ammo will be difficult . I might need a flintlock.

Did you hear with all the flooding in Yellowstone they are having a lot of micro earthquakes? When the Yellowstone Dome blows, the sky really WILL be falling!! Now THERE is something to worry about. And its not even 6 AM yet. Oh,dear! Oh my!! Whatever shall we do?
Hmm. Probably something we enjoy.

Don't worry! Be Happy.

 

[mehavey]

The Gentle Readers should really start paying attention to the water going out in the Bay . . .
https://www.politico.com/f/?id=00000180-fe73-de59-a7ec-ff77a2360000

This trend at work is a self-feeding phenomena.
Pretend/Ignore "say-it-ain't-so" it at one's own risk.

 

[HHollow]

I imagine the poll could have been the one administered by the masked purple haired lesbian socialist accosting customers at the door to the post office. When approached by this creature, a full sixty percent of persons aggressively avoided any contact. In such instances, I choose put my stiff arm forward like an old time running back, and say fork auf.

 

[DaleA]

A primary function of the news media is to keep us in a state of fear.

Or at least stirred up.

The simplest explanation is that they're doing it just to 'sell' their product, that is, get more clicks on their articles to get more advertisers to advertise with them.

I'll stay with the simplest explanation for now but I'm starting to be open to other explanations too.

 

[DaleA]

Mehavey---that link in post #9 is some link!

There's a ton of information there and I'm not sure I'm up to going through most of it but you surely did your due diligence by providing us the link. Thanks.

 

[44 AMP]

one of the things about polls that always has bothered me, they survey what, a couple thousand people?? Maybe??

Then apply those results assuming them to be consistent and accurate across a country of more than 330 MILLION people....

another thing to remember is something that happened to a fellow I knew, back in the Clinton years. Somehow, he got on some pollster's list, and they called him, about every three months or so, asking what he thought of the Pres. and the job he was doing...

This guy was an old farmer, and about as political as a rock. SO, for a couple years or so, every time they called, he told them he was fine with the Pres and the job he was doing.

Then, one time, just to see what would happen, when they called, he told them he was very unhappy with the Pres and thought he was doing a terrible job.

THEY NEVER CALLED HIM AGAIN!


As far as I'm concerned, the only poll that matters is the one we have every couple years in November to elect our govt officials.
And sadly, from what I've seen in the past decade, I'm beginning to have my doubts about those....

 

[gwpercle]

Background Checks For Guns .... every firearm I've purchased since 1970 ... the year I purchased my first gun has come with a background check ... at gun shows , at dealers store and at Cabela's in 2020 ... every purchase required a background check !!!
What is this fake news that anyone can buy a gun without a background check
...it bogus ...
Polls are such a farce ... I don't believe any poll .

 

[Metal god]

What is this fake news that anyone can buy a gun without a background check
...it bogus

:-( No it's not - full stop . I don't know the numbers but think it's safe to say at least half the states don't require background checks on private party sales ( EDIT 27 states do not require background checks for private party sales https://www.findlaw.com/consumer/consumer-transactions/private-gun-sale-laws-by-state.html ) . Meaning selling to a friend or buying from/off a personal add in the paper does not require a background check . Just go to there house and pay the agreed upon amount and walk away with your firearm . No paperwork no nothing .

Thank god I reload , CA started background checks for ammo a couple years ago . Which means no buying off the internet either unless you have it shipped to a local dealer licensed to do the transaction . A lot of local shops charge a lot for that type of transaction because they'd rather you bought ammo from them so they make it less worth buying on the internet . By the tyme your done paying for the ammo , shipping and the local dealer fee , it's not worth buying off the net .

I tried buying ammo once at Walmart . Turns out I only had one form of ID with me and you need two . Went back the next day with the proper docs only to find the one of two employees qualified to do the transaction had left for the day and the other would not be in until the morning . Those were my first and only attempts at buying ammo after the background checks went into effect , just not worth it .

 

[HiBC]

:-( No it's not - full stop . I don't know the numbers but think it's safe to say at least half the states don't require background checks on private party sales . Meaning selling to a friend of buying from a personal add in the paper . Just go to there house and pay the agreed upon amount and walk away with your firearm . No paperwork no nothing .

"I don't know the numbers but I think its safe to say" Well....If you are going to post that I'd like to see the numbers just to keep things honest.

I'll admit I don't browse newspaper want ads like I used to. Do they still allow guns to be sold through the want ads?
I don't see guns for sale on Marketplace,E-bay, Craigslist,etc.

I know at the Colorado gun shows they have ffl stations to provide backgrounds checks for every sale, including private face to face sales. The parking lots are monitored and patrolled for suspected face to face sales.

I don't sell many guns. When I do,I look out for myself. I assume the person I'm selling it to will some day sell it or have it stolen. Even if its a gentle crime free person I trust. Likely someplace there is a form 4473 for that gun with my name on it. I will still be the one that has the two agents knock on my door if that gun is connected to a crime.

Long ago I would make a hand written "bill of sale" with a serial number, date,and drivers liscence number so if those guys ever did come knocking I had something better than " I dunno. Some guy. He had cash" I could say "This guy"
But I quit that. Now,the only way I sell is with an ffl transfer. I don't help anyone to have an "off paper" gun. Its not "off paper" It would be on MY paper.
California? Beautiful piece of real estate. I no longer recognize it as a place in USA that I would visit and I certainly would not live there.
Background checks for ammo?
The People of California voted in the Government they deserve.

I have my Colorado Primary ballot on the table. On it, there is a man who failed at politics in California. He is running to be the US Senator from Colorado. There is NO CHANCE he will get my vote.

 

[44 AMP]

WA was a state that didn't require background checks on private sales, but not for some years now.

Now, to comply with the law, both the seller, and the buyer, AND the gun have to go to an FFL dealer (during their business hours) and have the dealer run the background check. The law was kind enough to set a cap on what the dealer could charge though...

The law that orders this is horribly vague about what is, and isn't a covered "transfer", and is under challenge in court, but between the usual pace of such cases, and a couple years of near court shutdown of the "minor stuff" due to covid, it will probably be many more years before we get a decision of any kind.

In the meantime, no one is enforcing that law, (other than perhaps the King County Sherrif) and most people are voluntarily complying.

Previous to that law, private sellers only had to be reasonably sure they weren't selling to a prohibited person, and if they did, that was on them.

as to this,

.... every firearm I've purchased since 1970 ... the year I purchased my first gun has come with a background check ... at gun shows , at dealers store and at Cabela's in 2020 ... every purchase required a background check !!!

I don't know where you lived, were checks in the 70s a requirement of your state??
There was no Federal background check requirement until the Brady Bill was passed, which applies ONLY to purchases from FFL dealers. Each state has their own regulations about purchases between private individuals, and personally I've bought, sold, or traded, literally hundreds of guns between my self and private parties since the early 70s. I've also bought quite a few from FFL dealers who began running the instant check system when it went into effect in 98.

I don't fear any background check, I just detest the now mandated inconvenience and cost.

What is this fake news that anyone can buy a gun without a background check
...it bogus ...

Its not bogus, its just incomplete. There is a black market in firearms. Anyone CAN buy a gun without a background check, if they're willing to break the law. Do note how leaving that part out changes a LOT. Not telling the whole truth is what is "bogus"....

 

[101combatvet]

Polls are like statistics; you can work the numbers to favor your agenda. One of the reasons Clinton liked them they are often used as a form of propaganda.

 

[Metal god]

HiBC , I added a link for/to those numbers that shows what each individual state requires for private sales . As stated in my post 27 states don’t require any background checks for private sales , according to my math that is at least half the states . I’ll admit that is a few less then I thought . Before reading that link if pressed I would have said 30+ states don’t require background checks on every sale/transfer

 

[mehavey]

Polls are like statistics; you can work the numbers to favor your agenda.
One of the reasons Clinton liked them they are often used as a form of
propaganda.

Someone finally broke the code.
- The poll numbers are not going in the right direction -- regard of "pollster" factor
- A major element associated w/ those poll numbers' direction is 1st cousin to The Road to Abilene
- Poll numbers for today's "Tell-Me-What-I-Should-Think" politicians are used very effectively as legislative weapons.

As for those who chose to say "I don't believe in polls...."
I'm reminded of that old saw:
.....You may not believe in War...
.....But War definitely believes in you