This is why I carry a REVOLVER!
- Thread starter Super Sneaky Steve
- Start date
Reading the linked article, the guy engaged three guys with guns and shot each of them. That's 3 shots before his Glock 19 jammed. He may have died if he only had 15 or 17 shots out of a semi auto....
In this case, he only got 3 shots and his Glock jammed. In this case, I don't see that he would have been disadvantaged let alone killed if he had used a revolver.
Given that the accuracy of media reporting, all we can say with certainty is that the homeowner shot 3 intruders. That means at least 3 shots. It may have been only 3 shots, or it might have been more shots, just not reported on at this time.
I found it curious that the Tampa Bay Times identified the homeowner's guns by name as a "Glock 19 and a Kriss Vector 10mm semiautomatic rifle", and yet made no mention of the gun(s) that the intruders had.
I find that a bit "unbalanced". Not surprising though, considering the source...
As to squibs, and this...
They do, which is a good thing. HOWEVER, people are being trained to ignore it!!!
I think the emphasis on immediately performing the "Tap Rack Bang" failure drill is wrong. I think it is a poor safety practice, in training. and the reason is the "immediate" part.
When a gun gives you that "hey dummy, something is wrong" signal, training is OVER, until you determine what went wrong and why.
ITs fine, even important, to know what to do, and train doing failure drills, I just think that the emphasis on immediately getting the semi running again, in training when no one is shooting at you is given too high a priority.
It would be interesting to know what kind of jam the bad guy had with his gun (after firing one shot) or even what the bad guy's gun was. And I note that, (from what was reported) the homeowner didn't try to clear his jammed gun, he went "immediately"? for another gun.
Was that "poor training"? or prudent action?? In order to judge that, we'd need to know all the actions in detail, and right now, we don't.
Ever hear the story about the cop(s) who did the TapRackBang drill 3 times before realizing he had shot his pistol to slide lock and that the "malfuction" he was trying to clear was an empty gun??
Might not be a true story, but its not outside the realm of the possible.
It's a long proven fact that, if you have training, under extreme stress you are highly likely to do what you trained to do, whether it is right or wrong for the situation you are in.
Yea, but with just a little training and experience, I would think he'd have that auto back in action pretty quick, and wouldnt have to go look for something else.Reading the linked article, the guy engaged three guys with guns and shot each of them. That's 3 shots before his Glock 19 jammed. He may have died if he only had 15 or 17 shots out of a semi auto....
Unless of course, it was some sort of major malfunction, and the gun was DRT.
99% of the time, if a revolver stops, it becomes a blunt impact weapon, unless you have another.
Just from what Ive seen at the range when people are shooting (and it doesnt matter what the gun is) and have a stoppage of some sort, most are just standing there looking at the gun with a stupid look on their face, trying to figure out why its stopped.
Id be willing to bet, its a very common thing too.
As I said earlier, at least with the autos, if you use well worn/worn-out brass in practice, youll end up getting all sorts of random and unexpected stoppages, and you learn to deal with them, and without thinking about doing it.
If something felt or sounded off when it happens, I usually still do the TRB, but dont actually do the "bang" part, except in my head. Then I stop and clear the gun and make sure I dont have a plugged barrel.
If you shoot enough, its pretty amazing how much attention your brain is actually paying to whats going on, when youre not paying attention to whats going on with the gun as you shoot.
EIGHTYDUECE
New member
The article does not mention only three shots fired. It states only that he shot each guy.
I carried a 1911 for decades in the military and as a civilian. Never felt the need to have more than 7 rounds in the magazine and one in the chamber. Now I carry a 686+ because I wanted a change. There is a lot of false sense of security many people experience with guns, not saying anyone here but if you carry a hand gun with 15 or 17 rounds and than still feel the need to carry extra magazines most people do not realize that if you can't stop the agressor within 2 or 3 shots you will likely be shot and killed.
It is difficult for many to commit to a scenario where lethal response is required and the need to remain calm and accept the fact that you may get shot or killed will be the outcome. But by keeping what ever assemblence of calmness one can muster it may actually be the only thing that saves your life by actually taking an extra split second or two to aim.
Most of us have an upper hand already in that we are committed to shooting our guns at the range and practicing as it is part of our routine on a frequent basis so that we become proficient. The thugs or drug addicts don't have that commitment or can't afford that luxury.
It is difficult for many to commit to a scenario where lethal response is required and the need to remain calm and accept the fact that you may get shot or killed will be the outcome. But by keeping what ever assemblence of calmness one can muster it may actually be the only thing that saves your life by actually taking an extra split second or two to aim.
Most of us have an upper hand already in that we are committed to shooting our guns at the range and practicing as it is part of our routine on a frequent basis so that we become proficient. The thugs or drug addicts don't have that commitment or can't afford that luxury.
Which is, essentially what gun safety teaches you to do, though people supply the stupid look on their face all on their own.
When a gun doesn't go off as planned, you are supposed to stop, and figure out why! Keeping the muzzle downrange and counting to 10, or 30, before opening the action. This is basic safety training. It's not "combat" training, where some safety rules are ignored, as they most likely would be in actual combat.
I can't fault the homeowner for not trying to :"stay in action" (clear his pistol), he went for (and got, apparently) another gun he believed would work. Judgement calls, made in the heat of action in seconds or fractions of seconds don't always make the "best" sense when reviewed at leisure, later.
Even if you "know" you can clear your semi 90% of the time, going for another gun you "know" will work might seem to be the best choice at the time.
bedbugbilly
New member
Boils down to carry what YOU feel comfortable with. Simple as that.
Personally, I carry both - depends where I'm going. To think that you'll never have an issue with a revolver is flawed thinking though. I have been shooting revolvers for 55 + years and NO mechanical item is 100% "trouble free" - either revolver or semi-auto. That's why you train for such things that can - and do - happen.
Personally, I carry both - depends where I'm going. To think that you'll never have an issue with a revolver is flawed thinking though. I have been shooting revolvers for 55 + years and NO mechanical item is 100% "trouble free" - either revolver or semi-auto. That's why you train for such things that can - and do - happen.
I've shot thousands of rounds in SA's vs hundreds in revolvers. I've had zero revolver failures and 3 SA failures (not counting a handful of reloads I'd bought that had bad primers).
Maybe it's only in the reporting, but guns seem to jam up an awful lot when fired under stress and pressure. There are more ways you can get an SA to fail, and I guess in an actual deadly encounter your odds of being knocked down, wrestled to the ground, having only one hand free and having to shoot from a cramped or weird firing position are quite high. I've increasingly carried my J-frame as an EDC because it's super light and easy to conceal and also comfortable, even vs. a thin 9mm.
With "experts" saying that an overwhelming majority of defensive encounters involve "3 shots, 3 yards, 3 seconds" and frequently during struggles or at very close quarters, a revolver does make a lot of sense as a primary CCW. A lot of people scoff at that and say nonsense, they're meant as backup guns! To which I'd ask, backup to what? Mostly that language refers to people who go armed for a living and need a backup to their primary weapon, and are in a line of work where they're far more likely to need to engage someone, and at a distance, and at a higher volume of fire.
For civilian use, I'd have to think that most of the time any gun is "backup" to everything in the universe going wrong all at once.
Maybe it's only in the reporting, but guns seem to jam up an awful lot when fired under stress and pressure. There are more ways you can get an SA to fail, and I guess in an actual deadly encounter your odds of being knocked down, wrestled to the ground, having only one hand free and having to shoot from a cramped or weird firing position are quite high. I've increasingly carried my J-frame as an EDC because it's super light and easy to conceal and also comfortable, even vs. a thin 9mm.
With "experts" saying that an overwhelming majority of defensive encounters involve "3 shots, 3 yards, 3 seconds" and frequently during struggles or at very close quarters, a revolver does make a lot of sense as a primary CCW. A lot of people scoff at that and say nonsense, they're meant as backup guns! To which I'd ask, backup to what? Mostly that language refers to people who go armed for a living and need a backup to their primary weapon, and are in a line of work where they're far more likely to need to engage someone, and at a distance, and at a higher volume of fire.
For civilian use, I'd have to think that most of the time any gun is "backup" to everything in the universe going wrong all at once.
Nothing to add beyond this...
The only handgun type I’ve consistently had failures and breakages with... Glock
Same for complaints & issues from the agencies I’ve worked for or with... Glock
Up to and including new guns breaking, failures, repeated recalls, etc
“Glock Perfection”.... Pfft!
The only handgun type I’ve consistently had failures and breakages with... Glock
Same for complaints & issues from the agencies I’ve worked for or with... Glock
Up to and including new guns breaking, failures, repeated recalls, etc
“Glock Perfection”.... Pfft!
Sooo, What revolver did they replace them with?Nothing to add beyond this...
The only handgun type I’ve consistently had failures and breakages with... Glock
Same for complaints & issues from the agencies I’ve worked for or with... Glock
Up to and including new guns breaking, failures, repeated recalls, etc
“Glock Perfection”.... Pfft!
I have shot both revolvers and autos extensively for 45 years or more. I have seen plenty of malfunctions with both platforms. In general, I probably trust a revolver slightly more, after it has been proven to be a good reliable revolver. I have found that most revolver malfunctions show up as factory defects and once proven reliable are usually very reliable, for a long time until they get dirty, or suffer parts wear or breakage. The rest of the malfunctions are ammo related, usually. High primers, and powder granules under the extractor are the most common issues, but of course a squid load can tie one up, and shut it down.
Semi-Autos once again, after a particular semi-auto has been shot and proven reliable, they usually remain reliable, until parts wear, parts breakage, bad ammo, or becoming excessively dirty, however there are a lot of other things that can go wrong and one needs to vet the particular semi-auto extensively to learn if there are any issues including operator issues. And sometimes those operator issues take a little time to crop up. Poor magazines are one of the most common issues with semi-autos, and also factory defects. And some people have problems with weak wrist or weak hold, and not giving enough resistance for the slide to work. This is a problem my daughter has with several models of Glocks, but the very same pistols in my hands hands have proven to be 100% reliable. But her Smith and Wesson M&P Compact 9mm works 100% for her.
My favorite semi-auto and also the carry gun platform I carry CCW the most often is a 1911, usually a Colt Lightweight Commander. However, I have had good reliable 1911's with 100% track records, suddenly become very unreliable, and its usually always been a broken or otherwise failed extractor. But once replace and tuned correctly, went back to being 100% reliable.
And I experienced a stoppage with a Wilson Combat 5" 1911, one time, caused by a squid load which deserves mention. I was shooting a fast stage in IDPA competition. I was shoot some custom reloaded cast lead reloads, 200gr lead semi-wadcutters. the last round in the mag did not have any powder in it. The primer shoved it into the barrel, but I was wearing muffs, and did not hear the faint sound of the primer and just thought that my slide did not catch open on the last round, so I racked the slide back to lock, dropped the spent mag and reloaded with a fresh mag and dropped the slide and finished the stage. All round were on the target with none missing. I was a little mystified, because I did not understand exactly what happened, and shrugged it off. But in practice at home, I had the same thing happen the next week, but I did hear the primer pop, this time. So, I pulled the slide back and sure enough a bullet was in the barrel just ahead of the chamber. I decided I would not buy that gunshow custom loaded ammo anymore and regulated the rest of that ammo to practice only.
No damage was done to the gun, that I could ever detect. It might have been different with jacked hardball, I don't know, but the softer cast lead bullet was harmlessly pushed out the barrel and actually landed on the target, in the IDPA competition stage. Now, I have had squid loads (no powder) before, when using a revolver and every time it ever happened the the bullet locked up the cylinder, and the had to be driven back into the chamber before swinging out the cylinder. In this case the semi-auto handled the malfunction better, and hardly slowed me down at all, in competition.
I trust my handloads, but I don't trust other people's reloads, even custom reloaded ammo. In a self defense gun, probably only top quality factory ammo should be used, and that will reduce the odds of a malfunction, regardless of revolver or semi-auto. I trust small revolvers better then I do small autos, but larger full sized autos, if top quality, are probably about as reliable as revolvers and easier to carry for me.
Semi-Autos once again, after a particular semi-auto has been shot and proven reliable, they usually remain reliable, until parts wear, parts breakage, bad ammo, or becoming excessively dirty, however there are a lot of other things that can go wrong and one needs to vet the particular semi-auto extensively to learn if there are any issues including operator issues. And sometimes those operator issues take a little time to crop up. Poor magazines are one of the most common issues with semi-autos, and also factory defects. And some people have problems with weak wrist or weak hold, and not giving enough resistance for the slide to work. This is a problem my daughter has with several models of Glocks, but the very same pistols in my hands hands have proven to be 100% reliable. But her Smith and Wesson M&P Compact 9mm works 100% for her.
My favorite semi-auto and also the carry gun platform I carry CCW the most often is a 1911, usually a Colt Lightweight Commander. However, I have had good reliable 1911's with 100% track records, suddenly become very unreliable, and its usually always been a broken or otherwise failed extractor. But once replace and tuned correctly, went back to being 100% reliable.
And I experienced a stoppage with a Wilson Combat 5" 1911, one time, caused by a squid load which deserves mention. I was shooting a fast stage in IDPA competition. I was shoot some custom reloaded cast lead reloads, 200gr lead semi-wadcutters. the last round in the mag did not have any powder in it. The primer shoved it into the barrel, but I was wearing muffs, and did not hear the faint sound of the primer and just thought that my slide did not catch open on the last round, so I racked the slide back to lock, dropped the spent mag and reloaded with a fresh mag and dropped the slide and finished the stage. All round were on the target with none missing. I was a little mystified, because I did not understand exactly what happened, and shrugged it off. But in practice at home, I had the same thing happen the next week, but I did hear the primer pop, this time. So, I pulled the slide back and sure enough a bullet was in the barrel just ahead of the chamber. I decided I would not buy that gunshow custom loaded ammo anymore and regulated the rest of that ammo to practice only.
No damage was done to the gun, that I could ever detect. It might have been different with jacked hardball, I don't know, but the softer cast lead bullet was harmlessly pushed out the barrel and actually landed on the target, in the IDPA competition stage. Now, I have had squid loads (no powder) before, when using a revolver and every time it ever happened the the bullet locked up the cylinder, and the had to be driven back into the chamber before swinging out the cylinder. In this case the semi-auto handled the malfunction better, and hardly slowed me down at all, in competition.
I trust my handloads, but I don't trust other people's reloads, even custom reloaded ammo. In a self defense gun, probably only top quality factory ammo should be used, and that will reduce the odds of a malfunction, regardless of revolver or semi-auto. I trust small revolvers better then I do small autos, but larger full sized autos, if top quality, are probably about as reliable as revolvers and easier to carry for me.
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If you get in a tumble match on the ground with a thug ... or thugs ... a revolver is least likely to malfunction... I carry both .. revolver & semi ... Im carrying a revolver more often . and always a revolver as a BUG .. a Charter Arms Undercover Lite 38spl or a Charter Boomer 44spl .. If I carry a revolver primary its a Charter in one of these calibers 44spl , 45acp 40s&W or 6 shot 357
My carry gun is either a Glock 43x, a Taurus 85, or a big S&W 686. It depends on where I'm at, what I'm doing and what I'm wearing. I've owned 3 Glocks and have really never had ANY problems. I've had some squib rounds, but that's not the guns fault. I trust them implicitly. But I love revolvers too.
My carry is a revolver. I have shot a lot of matches, with semi autos and with a couple revolvers. I shot only a 625 for a year, practice, club IDPA and a state IDPA match. Zero malfunctions with the revolver. For a while I shot a 686 and a 586, one malfunction that I can remember, flakes of unburned powder under the extractor caused me to shoot part of a stage in single action because the cylinder was binding, slowed me down in that stage(changed powder after that). Semi autos, bottom fell out of a magazine, engaged the safety on an FS92 a few times(it's now a decocker only thanks to Wilson). With the 1911 guns, just the occasional failure to feed just because they are autos.
While I have very few failures during match shooting I have had more with semi autos than with revolvers. Autos are also more finicky about ammo than revolvers. From my experience the only thing a semi does better that a revolver is it carries more ammo.
If I carried in a belt holster I could be happy carrying a Lightweight Commander or S&W M&P Compact. Any gun you carry needs to be proven before you carry it.
While I have very few failures during match shooting I have had more with semi autos than with revolvers. Autos are also more finicky about ammo than revolvers. From my experience the only thing a semi does better that a revolver is it carries more ammo.
If I carried in a belt holster I could be happy carrying a Lightweight Commander or S&W M&P Compact. Any gun you carry needs to be proven before you carry it.
*shrugs* Whatever works for you. Rule Number One of a Gunfight is to bring a gun, and you've certainly got that covered.
Personally, I'll stick with a semiautomatic pistol. I've never had my carry guns malfunction on me as long as I keep them properly maintained, and I imagine the same rings true for most other folks who choose to carry autoloaders.
I guarantee that if you looked hard enough you'd find a similar story involving a Revolver as well. Thugs aren't exactly known for taking meticulous care of their firearms and why would they bother when most folks will hand over their wallets or open the drawer to a cash register on demand so long as a firearm is pointed at them? I don't believe I've ever heard of someone refusing to hand over their money when threatened at gunpoint because the thug's gun didn't appear to be well maintained.
Personally, I'll stick with a semiautomatic pistol. I've never had my carry guns malfunction on me as long as I keep them properly maintained, and I imagine the same rings true for most other folks who choose to carry autoloaders.
I guarantee that if you looked hard enough you'd find a similar story involving a Revolver as well. Thugs aren't exactly known for taking meticulous care of their firearms and why would they bother when most folks will hand over their wallets or open the drawer to a cash register on demand so long as a firearm is pointed at them? I don't believe I've ever heard of someone refusing to hand over their money when threatened at gunpoint because the thug's gun didn't appear to be well maintained.