Thin and Light DA/SA 9mm?
- Thread starter Cosmodragoon
- Start date
You can't have everything you want. TDA firearms are certainly in the minority nowadays. You want a thin TDA with a safety or a decocker. Several have been mentioned but none are perfect. The S&W 3913/908 and the CS9's have everything you need, but the presence of an ambidextrous safety/decocker is a deal breaker. Then try the Beretta PX4 subcompact, install the stealth levers, and convert to a decocker only (G model).
For what it's worth, I'd take the ambi controls on a 3913 over a PX4. And I bet the 3913 is thinner too. Not to mention much better looking.
For what it's worth, I'd take the ambi controls on a 3913 over a PX4. And I bet the 3913 is thinner too. Not to mention much better looking.
Interesting that the PX4 is being mentioned so much. I have a compact version, and I really like it, but "thin," the first word in the thread title, is not an adjective I would apply, even with the G lever. Glad it's working for so many, though. Sweet shooter I will agree with, but closer to chunky than thin.
+1 for the S&W 3913, mine is great for carry and is easy to carry IWB. As for the ambi safety you do know you can change them out with a single side safety or you could have yours milled down nice and thin and almost forget its even there. When I'm not carring my 3913 I will carry my 3904, I like it even better than the 3913. Good luck with your hunt.
Cosmodragoon
New member
Indeed, a lot of these guns are in the 1.3" and up club: P30sk, 2000sk, PX4 Storm Compact, Bersa UC9, P99c... What they save in height or length usually isn't enough to compensate for that level of thickness. That's not to say that there aren't occasions where I might choose one of them over their full-sized relatives. However, on how many of those occasions would I really prefer to carry something smaller or to just suck it up and pack the full-size?
This is obviously subjective and I'm talking about myself here, but this has been a steady barrier to the double-stack compacts. If one of the models listed above got a thinner single-stack release, I'd probably be all over it. In the meantime, my carry options in the desired size category will simply remain outside of my preferred action style. That is, unless I come across a 3913 Ladysmith with the levers on one side only. I may also end up exploring the middle-ground of a P239...
Thanks for the recommendations and discussion. If we missed anything or if something new is on the horizon, please keep this thread in mind!
This is obviously subjective and I'm talking about myself here, but this has been a steady barrier to the double-stack compacts. If one of the models listed above got a thinner single-stack release, I'd probably be all over it. In the meantime, my carry options in the desired size category will simply remain outside of my preferred action style. That is, unless I come across a 3913 Ladysmith with the levers on one side only. I may also end up exploring the middle-ground of a P239...
Thanks for the recommendations and discussion. If we missed anything or if something new is on the horizon, please keep this thread in mind!
Except for the capacity you gain over a single stack... As for carrying a fullsize Glock 17 versus Glock 26, I don't know anyone that's carried both that wouldn't admit there is a difference and for most people almost always pretty noticeable. It's your call in the end, but I think you're making a lot out of thickness that isn't necessarily there.
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Just don't make the assumption that you will be able to shoot all the guns you're discussing equally well.... ( it's going to likely come down to some little things) that you're only going to pickup if you shoot them. ...rapid fire 6 rds - slide lock- speed reload - fire 6 more--- start from low ready & run in under 10 sec or so, depending on your ability / 10 sec on that drill drawing from a holster is a class C to B shooter probably ...90% hits center chest at 6-8 yds.
.....and evaluate --- / how does the gun feel in rapid fire, does it come back on target naturally as it recoils, how does grip angle feel, how trigger resets, does mag release feel good, how smooth is the speed reload to 1 shot ( should be under 3 sec from slide lock '- speed reload - to 1 shot) to be an effective carry gun in my view.....but all those little things are a big deal....and sure you can change some of them for a fee...
Find a range that rents these guns - or talk to buddies that have them that will let you put a few rds downrange. ..
.....and evaluate --- / how does the gun feel in rapid fire, does it come back on target naturally as it recoils, how does grip angle feel, how trigger resets, does mag release feel good, how smooth is the speed reload to 1 shot ( should be under 3 sec from slide lock '- speed reload - to 1 shot) to be an effective carry gun in my view.....but all those little things are a big deal....and sure you can change some of them for a fee...
Find a range that rents these guns - or talk to buddies that have them that will let you put a few rds downrange. ..
I don't understand why the safety lever on both sides is even an issue. The safety is way back on the slide, so no method of carrying it is going to have that right side lever digging into the side of your pants. It also makes it possible to manipulate toe safety with your left hand should the need ever arise. If you want a Ladysmith or the NL version of the 3913, you're gonna pay far more for it than you would a standard 3913. You can get a 908 for around 400 bucks. Not to mention I think the LS version is ugly. Hate the slanted dustcover and the grey grips.
You want a thin TDA weapon with the safety/decocker on one side only. What you are looking for is going to be extremely hard to find. Life is about compromise. You can remove the right side safety lever on a 3913 in seconds. You can probably get the single sided safety that the Ladysmith has and replace it. You could probably send the gun in to S&W and have them do the work professionally, not to mention tune the gun up as well.
You want a thin TDA weapon with the safety/decocker on one side only. What you are looking for is going to be extremely hard to find. Life is about compromise. You can remove the right side safety lever on a 3913 in seconds. You can probably get the single sided safety that the Ladysmith has and replace it. You could probably send the gun in to S&W and have them do the work professionally, not to mention tune the gun up as well.
Cosmodragoon
New member
I'd rather not have a manual safety at all. (A decocker is nice, and I did mention that I like how the P99 has its button flush with the slide.) If I have to have one to get the size I want here, one is better than two and for more reasons that just adding extra width.
I didn't want this to be a forum on the pros and cons of different actions styles for concealed carry, but I suppose I should explain why I prefer DA/SA with no manual safety. Here is my "position paper" on the subject.
1. Safeties
In the heat of the moment, should my life or the lives of my family be threatened, I only want to be concerned with one control mechanism. In any of the potential situations that arise, I only want one thing to be necessary for fire. Naturally, that reduces to the trigger. Sure, you can thumb-cock a double-action revolver or some of these hammer-fired DA/SA semis if you want to, but you don't need to.
Yes, you can leave a safety off but ideally, I'd rather not have extra fiddly mechanisms that I'll never use. Two buttons are worse than one and one is worse than none.
Sure, I understand that I might sometime possibly need to use one of my range guns or another person's carry gun for defensive purposes and I need to be proficient in a wide variety of actions. That's fine. This is how I want my carry guns.
2. Action
However much it may or may not be a realistic concern, I'm not personally comfortable carrying a hair trigger in my pocket, on my belt, or under my shoulder. So, the one mechanical remedy that does not violate point 1 is a double action pull on at least the first shot. I also have double-action revolvers in my carry rotation and for home defense, so it maintains some degree of consistency.
Sure, having a different trigger pull after the first shot can take a little getting used to. Training is the obvious answer and I think this concern is largely overblown when it comes to defensive handgun applications. Of course, I did start on this kind of action and it's how I use these particular guns when plinking or at the range.
This works for me. Use what works for you.
I didn't want this to be a forum on the pros and cons of different actions styles for concealed carry, but I suppose I should explain why I prefer DA/SA with no manual safety. Here is my "position paper" on the subject.
1. Safeties
In the heat of the moment, should my life or the lives of my family be threatened, I only want to be concerned with one control mechanism. In any of the potential situations that arise, I only want one thing to be necessary for fire. Naturally, that reduces to the trigger. Sure, you can thumb-cock a double-action revolver or some of these hammer-fired DA/SA semis if you want to, but you don't need to.
Yes, you can leave a safety off but ideally, I'd rather not have extra fiddly mechanisms that I'll never use. Two buttons are worse than one and one is worse than none.
Sure, I understand that I might sometime possibly need to use one of my range guns or another person's carry gun for defensive purposes and I need to be proficient in a wide variety of actions. That's fine. This is how I want my carry guns.
2. Action
However much it may or may not be a realistic concern, I'm not personally comfortable carrying a hair trigger in my pocket, on my belt, or under my shoulder. So, the one mechanical remedy that does not violate point 1 is a double action pull on at least the first shot. I also have double-action revolvers in my carry rotation and for home defense, so it maintains some degree of consistency.
Sure, having a different trigger pull after the first shot can take a little getting used to. Training is the obvious answer and I think this concern is largely overblown when it comes to defensive handgun applications. Of course, I did start on this kind of action and it's how I use these particular guns when plinking or at the range.
This works for me. Use what works for you.
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Bingo.
What I will say in response to your comments on safeties or lack thereof, is the following.
1. Frankly any long gun, shot gun, rifle, or carbine, is better in a fight than a pistol. What a pistol has going for it is concealibility. But in your own home, that doesn't really matter. Now your ability to navigate your house with a long gun, depending on the size of your doorways and hallways, may be limited making pistols again preferable. My point is, I'd rather a long gun. The vast majority of long guns have safeties and most people don't bring up the presence of a safety as a negative on a long gun. I think the idea that a person can't remember to remove a safety is, like your comment about two different trigger pulls, overdone. Just like DA/SA, it's about training.
2. I would disagree that the choices are hair trigger or DA/SA. The vast majority of factory triggers are pretty far away from a hair trigger. In fact they're often only 2-3 lb. below what a tuned DA trigger comes out to be. Even many factory 1911 triggers are right around 6 lbs. Like you said, some things are overblown.
Far more people have been killed or injured because of the absence of a safety as opposed to having one. But I've never met somebody who was going to change their mind on that topic so if thats what you feel than that's what you feel.
So let me get this straight: you want a thin TDA with a decocker only. Several models have been mentioned, but there are thinner guns but they either have safeties or dual sided controls. Sounds like you gotta compromise. cause the thinnest single stack 9MM in TDA that I can think of is the 3913 but you've ruled that one out.
So let me get this straight: you want a thin TDA with a decocker only. Several models have been mentioned, but there are thinner guns but they either have safeties or dual sided controls. Sounds like you gotta compromise. cause the thinnest single stack 9MM in TDA that I can think of is the 3913 but you've ruled that one out.
Cosmodragoon
New member
Yes, that is what I want. No, it doesn't look like that wish will be coming true any time soon. As others have noted and I have acknowledged, filling this role will have to involve compromise. I'm just looking for the most favorable compromise.
No, I haven't ruled out the 3913. This thread has given me two very good ideas. The first is to keep an eye out for a Ladysmith version of the 3913 in good condition. It's about an inch wide and only has the lever on one side. The other is to seriously consider a Sig P239 for something in between that and a double-stack compact. I'd make a joke about having as many "guns for the job" as my wife has "shoes for the outfit", but I'm at least halfway there. The worse joke is that despite all that, I usually just end up leaving the house with a pocket-holstered LCR 327.
Bill DeShivs
New member
The thinnest 9mm that I know of is the Keltec PF9 at .88 inches.
The gun is DAO, rather than DA/SA.
It weighs 12.7 ounces, unloaded.
They are excellent little guns.
The gun is DAO, rather than DA/SA.
It weighs 12.7 ounces, unloaded.
They are excellent little guns.
Two good choices are the Sig P239 SAS Gen2 and the Sig P225-A1, both of these have the Short Reset Trigger (SRT) and the Siglite sights so these are both good shooters. I like the black G10 medallion grips on the base P225-A1, and you can get nice hardwood medallion grips on the P225-A1 Classic.
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