There he was pistol in hand

[ClayInTx]

I can understand your actions because it was probably a stressful several moments there and we cannot predict how we’ll act when under stress. We might beat our chests and talk about double tap to COM or run him down with the truck but that’s talk from the keyboard.

So—don’t fault yourself for what you did. It makes me wonder what I would do. Now to talk from the keyboard; I’d hit the shoulder and if it was possible go onto the secondary road, or stop before I got to him.

Thanks for posting this. It makes us think about the “what ifs”.

Real world? I’d probably try to get home as quickly as I could so I could get some clean pants on.

 

[BGutzman]

Thanks for all the comments. As far as the VA thing its not a flash back its training. I have been to some pretty funky places over the years and in general training has paid off time and time again. Now as a civilan Im not seeking any sort of anything but to live a peacfull life, but if and when danger presents itself its natural at least consider what you spent so many years traing to do.

And yes Traffic was not moving at any great speed because some fool put a tee intersection right behind the area the BG was at.

Im not sure there is any great answer to this problem and likely I wont encounter it again but its nice to at least have a game plan just in case.

 

[orionengnr]

You can see a pistol in someone's hand at 350 yards?

I just want the name of the doctor who did your Bionic eye transplants.

 

[raimius]

The whole "don't stop in the danger zone" is sound advice pretty much everywhere.

I would say, the best option is to avoid the whole situation with your vehicle, or should a situation develop, exit with great haste. Why trade gunfire if you are in a vehicle capable of leaving at upwards of 50mph?

 

[BGutzman]

You can see a pistol in someone's hand at 350 yards?

It started as something black in his hand and yes all the distances are my best recollection.

 

[twins]

I don't see the "danger" in this scenario at all. Heavy traffic, 175 yards, guy with "handgun". Why would you risk pulling your gun out and possibly causing harm to others?

This scenario gives me the creeps with trigger happy CCW holders more than the bad guys. I wouldn't trust any CCW holder to hit their target at 175 yards nor 75 yards.

From your description, I would have pulled over or stop on the median way before I was within range.

 

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Danger - can a handgun bullet go 175 yards? People have made critical incident handgun shots at 75 yards BTW.

A nut can run the 100 yards in 10 seconds. What if the nutso runs towards you as you are in slow traffic?

So if you do see someone with a handgun at a distance, it's not a trival situation.

If you want to discuss what to do, please continue. If you want to make insulting generic statements, stay out.

 

[MLeake]

GEM, I have to say I get a kick out of a psychologist describing a mentally disturbed individual as a "nut."

A PhD or PsyD who isn't PC is ok by me.

Cheers,

M

 

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Not to thread hijack but I'm not writing a DSM-IV evaluation of why someone would be walking around with a gun on the highway. I switched to the vernacular.

I supposed the person could have a rational reason why they would do evil and shoot up the road. A terrorist, perhaps?

We then wander into psychiatric/psychological views vs. legal views on insanity and diminished responsibility.

Oh, by now the guy is at my window - Bang, bang or not.

 

[MLeake]

I wasn't picking on you, Glenn...

... I just thought it was funny. Most of my Psych profs used terms like "client," because "patient" implied something was wrong with the nut...

Back to the tactics and training theme, though... As others have noted, the guy could have been a nut, or a generic BG. Or, he could have been a plain clothes officer, pursuing somebody. Or he could have been a store owner, chasing off a robber.

But in any of those cases, the safest bet is to leave the area. Either turn around in the median, if possible, or scoot through at speed and keep on going.

 

[B.N.Real]

That's a tough call.

Definitely would have slowed down and if I do that these days,I usually put on my flashers.

In this situation though,not something you want the bad guy looking at-emergency flashers.

That's a tough call there.

Kudos to the police and to you too.

It all worked out for the best.

 

[twins]

Nothing insulting about my remarks. Sorry you see it that way.

Yes, trained LEO have made critical shots at 75 yards and beyond, but I highly doubt too many CCW holders can do the same. I don't condone people pulling out guns just because they "feel" threaten. The poster never said they guy pointed the gun at them or anyone. Pulling a gun out put you at danger, not the bad guy.

Very fast run time at 40 yards is about 4.25 secs. Highly doubt a nut (unless an elite track star nut) can run 100 yards in 10 sec. And if he is running that fast, highly doubt he can shoot very accurately once he stops. Plus, the OP is in a car by god.

All I'm saying is that a CCW holder should not involve themselves in this scenario unless they know for sure they are the target. A heavy traffic highway leaves a lot of room for mistakes.

You want to know what to do? Stop, call 911. Sit tight or get off the road. Leave this kind of stuff to the police. Don't play hero.

If you're condoning what the OP did is right, I'm sorry but I don't agree with you Mr. Meyer.

 

[youngunz4life]

I do not think you did anything wrong by having your firearm at the ready as you got closer or moving your clothes as stated as an example. Slowing down or engaging this guy would have been a mistake. I am not saying you did this - I just don't think that would be wise at all. Someone made an interesting point about the 'clerk'. It could've been the clerk from the store(as one of Many other examples), but I believe you that he was probably some sort of BadGuy. If so, anything could've happened if you slowed down; he obviously would have benefited with a nice ride. You might have gotten some info if you called the police later that evening, but I am not sure about that. I also can attest to seeing things from a distance, so I am doing my best to put myself in your shoes for a moment. I know once when I drove up on a moose as an example it just looked like a figure in the distance on the road, and then it looked like a person riding a horse to finally be a moose. This can happen when you come up on anything that has no obstacles at all for heavy distances between you and the object, but a gun. It might not have been a weapon at all unless you are sure of that. In retrospect I think you will admit one needs to be careful when something like this happens. Curiosity killed the cat, and you did spend some time buckling on the issue of what to do or what to expect. You can only do that so long in very serious situations. The surprise factor can be a fatal flaw as oftentimes it is. I am glad you are ok plus thanks for your honesty and feedback throughout the thread.

 

[Glenn E. Meyer]

This is action actually take that folks don't condone:

As we closed within a 175 yards I unsnapped my shoulder holsters thumb safety and scanned the scene watching for any hostility other than the overt act of this guy standing their with a pistol in hand in public, in the median. I readied to pull my truck into the median but was also concerned with the heavy traffic and the safety danger it posed.

So then we get:

If you're condoning what the OP did is right, I'm sorry but I don't agree with you Mr. Meyer.

Well, call me Glenn or Dr. Meyer (the former is preferred in this setting) and don't agree with me but we have to be straight on the action. Some seem to be implying a Rambo gunfighter standing on the roof of his car.

We get a guy with a gun acting strangely who could get to us in real time. The OP unsnaps his holster and pays attention. That's what he did!

He speculates that if things went bad, he and his wife might have to defend themselves.

It's very simple. I don't disagree with his actions. Yep, he should have had a flying car and taken off from the median. But he didn't.

 

[isanchez2008]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Madhatter1
Attemtemping to engage a target with a pistol while driving from a moving vehicle is not an option I'd even consider. You have 3k pounds of steel and glass around you, and mobility.
Getting involved in a potentialy violant confrontation that you have no knowledge of is asking for bad things to happen

My thoughts exactly...

+1

 

[pichon]

I don't think the OP was looking for a fight. The way I read it, he kept driving and kept one hand on his gun in case the man began shooting in his general direction. It is plausible that a man with a gun would shoot a person in a car in order to steal the car and make a get-a-way.

Like Dr. Meyer said, his actions seemed pretty reasonable to me.

I unsnapped my shoulder holsters thumb safety and scanned the scene watching for any hostility

I would have reached down and pulled mine from my IWB holster and set it on the passenger seat while I sped by (if I hadn't turned around by then).

 

[MLeake]

Setting your weapon on the seat is a fantastic way to have it slide out of reach when you have to slam on your brakes or swerve around the driver in front of you, when he reacts.

Leave it in the holster, where you know where it is, and where you can quickly find it by feel.

And maximize your vehicle's potential to get out of Dodge.

 

[Marlin009]

I'd be looking for the first spot to pull over, either in the median or on the shoulder, once a weapon was confirmed. An LEO won't likely have his weapon drawn unless some BG does or there is some other significant danger. Either way, BG or LEO, I'm not driving into it if I can avoid it. I suspect the distances were shorter and therefore the time to react was less.

 

[pichon]

Leave it in the holster, where you know where it is, and where you can quickly find it by feel.

With cloth, rear slanting seats and heavily checkered rubber grips, it doesn't slide easily at all, and drawing from a seated position, with some sort of jacket or coat on, the center console in the way, and a seatbelt on is not very easy to do.

It also fits nicely in my cup holders too if the need were ever to present itself.

 

[MLeake]

Pichon, IIRC this is exactly how one of the agents at the Miami bank robber shootout lost his handgun.

Check out a Sam Andrews carjacker crossdraw holster, or a Beltster with additional crossdraw slot, if you are worried about access in a vehicle.

FWIW, using forward canted strong side IWB or OWB, I can still draw pretty well while seated. Just need to ensure cover garments are not tangled in the seat belt.

One last thought - swerves and hard stops generate more force than one might expect. Back in college days, we had inadequate paved parking space, so some authorized parking was in wooded areas. I sprained my thumb on the steering wheel when I hit a sawed off stump that had been below my line of sight, while parking IE at very low speed.