There he was pistol in hand

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BGutzman

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Early this fall on our way back from picking up some stuff for the house my wife and I were driving along a 4 lane highway with a 15 or 20 ft wide median in the center. As we drove we noted some man (on our right) ran out of a gas station and nearly got himself killed as he crossed two lanes and paused in the median. (About 350 yards away but he clearly didnt belong their)

The incident was odd because there is nothing on the opposite side of the road for a person to want to go to except for a rail road track and a whole lot of swampy river land and a very wide if possibly shallow river.

As our pickup closed the distance in fairly heavy traffic I noted this guy had something black in his right hand that looked like it might be a pistol. (I am far sighted) I told my wife that this guy was armed and we both moved the clothing out of the way of our ccw pistols and kept a hand ready to draw without actually drawing at this moment.

There was no turn off to take to avoid the situation until we would be almost even with this guy although the shoulder of the road was available as was the median.

As we closed within a 175 yards I unsnapped my shoulder holsters thumb safety and scanned the scene watching for any hostility other than the overt act of this guy standing their with a pistol in hand in public, in the median. I readied to pull my truck into the median but was also concerned with the heavy traffic and the safety danger it posed.

Out of the corner of my eyes I see red and blue lights as a police officer drove over the shoulder of the road (a second road runs parallel to the highway and their is a 4 way intersection) and onto the highway we were on with his siren wailing.

The officer pulls into the median and exits with his pistol drawn, the guy actually dropped to the ground as the patrol vehicle skidded to a stop in the median grass.

So the question I keep asking myself was what could my wife and I have done differently and how should we have reacted in this situation? I can guarntee you if we hadnt seen the police office we would have drawn our weapons in the next few seconds as prudence demands it. We would only have opened fire if fired upon or if it became obvious he was shooting up passing vehicles but we would have stopped without passing him due to the situation.

Our lives were in danger but we had no way to know if this guy was a undercover officer or a BG.

It would have been a horrible place to open fire as the environment was to cluttered with vehicles but if this BG had opened fire on the cars I would have had to pull into the median.
 

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MLeake

New member
You saw the problem at 350 yds...

... and reassessed at 175 yds....

... so, why did you keep closing?

If in any doubt, why not stop, cross the median, and go the other way? Use the vehicle, and distance, to prevent any possibility of an anticipated problem developing.
 

pichon

New member
I think you did the right thing. I would never fire my gun at someone unless they were intentionally trying to hurt me or someone who I knew to be an innocent person or a good guy. I would not involve myself in a situation which I could avoid (with certain exceptions), or where it wasn't clear which side of the fight was the right side to be on.
 

BGutzman

New member
I could have illegally crossed the median and probably caused an accident in the process as I said it was pretty heavy traffic. I dont claim that I somehow handled this situation in some text book manner and thats why I pose the question.

Certainly I did not want to engage this guy because the whole situation was bad but I didnt create the situation. I had no choice but to make a decision and go with it and thats what I did.

I appreciate the thought of turning around but at that moment it didnt occur to me.
 

Bud Helms

Senior Member
There was no turn off to take to avoid the situation until we would be almost even with this guy although the shoulder of the road was available as was the median.

I must admit to some confusion. Why didn't you proceed on the main thoroughfare? Why were you looking for a turn-off?
 

Dr. Strangelove

New member
Why would you "engage" this guy anyway? You stated yourself you had no idea who he was or what was going on, why not just zip by at highway speed and be done with what isn't your battle?

If you're a carrying hammer, everything starts to look like a nail...
 

BGutzman

New member
Im sorry my internets not so stable at the moment.

The guy was facing us, all he had to do was raise his hand and squeeze the trigger.

Im not saying I made a great or even right decision in this case but as I "zip" by whats to prevent him from opening fire on my person. Again unless he fired or made a move to fire I would not have engaged but the apparent threat seemed real enough at the moment.
 

BGutzman

New member
Believe me having to take the ultimate step is the last thing I ever want to do but reality is at the bare minimum he was brandishing a weapon in the middle of a highway intersection with no apparent reason to do so.

The threat was very clear even if who the guy was or what he was doing wasnt clear. Its why I am seeking a better way to handle this type of situation should it ever occur again.
 

BGutzman

New member
Bud I was looking for a turn off so I would not have to pass the unknown guy with a fire arm in hand.

Please note: I am making a statement not being sarcastic text gives no sense of tone.
 

RickB

New member
Was there room in the fairly heavy traffic to move to the outside lane and accelerate to 90mph? That's probably what I would have done. If the guy wanted to stop, or even shoot someone, you'd be the last person on his list.
 

BGutzman

New member
Im dropping offline for a hour or so to let this internet thing cool down but I will be back.

Please keep the ideas and comments coming as they are all valuable!
 

MadHatter1

New member
With the avalible information, there's no way to tell if the guy in the median was a BG- he could just as easily have been a clerk from the gas station that just got robbed trying to ID a suspect vehicle. Theres no way to tell.
With the limited information, I'd have to say focusing on getting out of the area should be the prioriaty. Sure, he could try to take a shot as you went by; odds of getting a solid hit are pretty slim. Speed up or slow down just a toch, swerve a little to make it a tougher shot. Get out of the 'kill zone'.
Attemtemping to engage a target with a pistol while driving from a moving vehicle is not an option I'd even consider. You have 3k pounds of steel and glass around you, and mobility.
Getting involved in a potentialy violant confrontation that you have no knowledge of is asking for bad things to happen.
 

Dr. Strangelove

New member
Madhatter1 said:
Attemtemping to engage a target with a pistol while driving from a moving vehicle is not an option I'd even consider. You have 3k pounds of steel and glass around you, and mobility.
Getting involved in a potentialy violant confrontation that you have no knowledge of is asking for bad things to happen

My thoughts exactly...
 

vito

New member
Unfortunately I live in one of the few states where concealed carry is still illegal under all circumstances. I wonder if I was able to carry all of the time if I would see situations differently and might react as you did in this event. My inclination would have been to either stop before reaching this individual or speeding up and passing as quickly as possible. Could it be that carrying for an extended period of time, always being vigilant about security and what is happening around you, can make you think you are in a self defense situation even when it is not really happening.
 

BGutzman

New member
All I know for sure is the guy had a pistol and it was visible in his hand and he was present in a median I have never seen anyone other than road worker using.

I would not have shot at him in a moving vehicle as there were way too many variables to begin with. My military training which may or may not be applicable says either stop before the danger zone if possible or if caught in it speed up and get out of the danger zone.

I know this wasnt a military situation but 21 + years of training is hard to override without consciously choose to ignore it.

Im just wondering if anyone has a better or different idea of what to do if this ever happens again.
 

ethan95

New member
have you reconsidered carrying a firearm or thought about talking to someone at the VA?

Please elaborate. I believe Hes simply just stating the motives behind his actions. Not trying to argue here, i just don't quite understand what you meant by that.

I feel as though your speed up or stop approach makes alot of sense. Had i been in you situation, i would have driving the other direction on the median before i continued in the direction of the BG. Breaking a traffic law in an effort to flee from a man w/ a gun being held at gunpoint by police, isnt a worry. Last thing i would want to happen in that situation, is be in the crossfire of a shootout between police and a BG. All in all i believe that you handled the situation well.
 
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Brian Pfleuger

Moderator Emeritus
As described, I can't see any reason why I would particularly feel endangered by this guy.

He's doesn't appear to be threatening anyone, there are hundreds of cars, he not pointing, shooting, anything. Why would he suddenly pick ME, out of traffic, for no reason.

If he did, the safest (and most reliable, accurate, effective) option would be to use my car as a weapon, not my gun

I would choke it up under "Weird", probably call 911 (long before I was unsnapping holsters) and let the people who are paid to deal with it, deal with it.
 
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