The Specialized Clothing Issue Always Seems To Come Up.

Status
Not open for further replies.
H

HiBC

New member
To be fair we could also argue that having light and knife clips visible give people an indication as well.
Click to expand...

I'm not a lawyer. Please do not take this as legal advice.

I'm sure it varies state to state. My understanding of Colorado law:

1) A concealed carry permit is only good for a concealed handgun. No other weapon may be carried concealed.

2) A knife clipped to a pocket showing as "visible" is not considered concealed.
Stuff it down in the pocket,its concealed.I'm pretty sure a blade under a certain length is not considered a "weapon"

Of course,I could be wrong
 
M

Moonglum

New member
HiBC said:
I'm not a lawyer. Please do not take this as legal advice.

I'm sure it varies state to state. My understanding of Colorado law:

1) A concealed carry permit is only good for a concealed handgun. No other weapon may be carried concealed.

2) A knife clipped to a pocket showing as "visible" is not considered concealed.
Stuff it down in the pocket,its concealed.I'm pretty sure a blade under a certain length is not considered a "weapon"

Of course,I could be wrong
Click to expand...
Colorado specifies a 3.5 inch blade but I'm pretty sure it's situational. I've never heard of anyone being arrested for a pocket knife.
 
M

Moonglum

New member
The only 5.11s I have any experience with are the Royal Robbins pants. My wife picked up a pair in a bundle of second hand clothes. I liked them but I had no idea what they were until I got issued several pairs at work. I had no idea they were a "Tell" until I read about it on the Internet.

To me the magazine pocket is awkwardly placed and if I put anything it my leg burns. The cargo pockets are too small to be of any real value but I liked that strap because I could hang the key ring for my work keys on it.
 
Last edited:
T

TunnelRat

New member
I’ve owned the Stryke and Apex pants and the Covert Flex shirt (the names are a bit much).

The first is meant more as a duty pant. I’ve used them in multiple training courses and they hold up well (the knees are reinforced inside and the fabric stretches and holds up to stains fairly well). I mainly use the pockets for storage but I have tried using the magazine pockets, rifle and pistol. They work, but I’m not executive protection and outside of that I am not sure the point as any duty rig seems like it would be better and when I carry concealed I have belt mounted options that are easier to access (I don’t conceal rifle magazines though, so if that’s a concern maybe it’s a plus, and I guess you could stuff your pockets with pistol magazines). The pocket placement and size is absolutely a tell.

The Apex pant is meant to be more discrete in that they don’t shout tactical from a distance. They look more like something you’d see at REI than a full on duty cargo pant. The pockets are a lot more subtle as is the styling. Certain colors also make it harder to tell the pants are “tactical” (darker colors hide the stitching more) . They still have the provision for magazines in the pockets and the material is pretty good stretch and stain wise.

The Covert Flex shirt is cut in such a way that there is a bit more room around the torso and waist so it doesn’t print as much against a pistol. The buttons are actually snaps and can pull away (except the top button). I can honestly say I don’t think whoever designed them used them much with firearms. The breast pocket is open and will trap the butt of a rifle if moving to a high ready and left handed. The interior hem near the buttons isn’t sewn shut and likes to catch rear pistol sights as you press out during a draw if the garment wasn’t cleared fully. There are much better hiking shirts or flannel shirts.

If you are looking for 5.11, don’t pay full price. Both 5.11 and their resellers do sales fairly often for say 20% off. Even then the prices aren’t cheap and it’s a fair argument that you’re just as well off with other options. My experience has been some 5.11 gear is thought out, others isn’t, and some frankly isn’t much better than what else is out there.

I’ll add that footwear according to officers I’ve talked to is another tell. Around me many officers wear the same cross trainers or trail running shoes on and off duty.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Last edited:
M

Moonglum

New member
About five years ago I decided I wanted to simplify my life. One of the things I decided to change was how I dressed. I went and bought 5 pairs of Wrangler Cargo pants and 5 camping shirts. I picked Wranglers because the phone pocket gave me a way to put my phone in the same place every time and because the cargo pockets were big enough to be useful without being too big. They actually worked so well I went out and bought 5 more pair in black for work.

I don't have to worry about what I'm going to wear. I grab the next set of clothes in my closet and roll.

Over the years I've noticed that wearing a uniform at work makes me anonymous. People notice the uniform, not me. I've actually run into client employees away from work and watched them try to figure out where they knew me from. I don't wear a uniform when I'm not at work but my clothes are similar enough that people really have no reason to to give me a second look. I'm a generic, middle aged, overweight, white guy in cargos and a fishing shirt. There are a million of me, nothing worth a moment's notice.

As for shoes, I have a 25 year old pair of Vasques hiking boots. They even have red shoe strings. Again, ubiquitous
 
T

TunnelRat

New member
I had one more thought about clothing and being memorable. In one course I took we did a scenario in a shoot house where there was a home invasion. Each student went through it separately, but we were all recorded and watched the results together at the end (honestly I found this a great idea that isn’t always done with scenario based training, but I learned just as much if not more watching others as I did going through it myself).

At the end of the scenario was an interview similar to that of a responding officer. Part of the point was to see the impact adrenaline might have had on our memories and why when giving a summary you want to be careful of making very definitive statements. We were asked to describe our attacker. All 12 or so of us could remember the color of the attacker’s shirt. No one could remember his pants and at best we had a rough idea of his height (the attacker’s face was under a helmet due to UTM pistols). Now this is different than just observing a person because when we saw the actor he was already a threat, but I was still a bit surprised at how tunnel vision we had all become.

The instructor who had been a police officer for decades and a training officer for much of that said remembering just the shirt color was very common. He stated some criminals were actually smart enough to take advantage of this and would wear a different colored shirt under their main shirt. If/when the criminal fled they would shed the outer shirt and at least avoid the main part of the description.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
M

Moonglum

New member
TunnelRat said:
The instructor who had been a police officer for decades and a training officer for much of that said remembering just the shirt color was very common. He stated some criminals were actually smart enough to take advantage of this and would wear a different colored shirt under their main shirt. If/when the criminal fled they would shed the outer shirt and at least avoid the main part of the description.
Click to expand...


I have read in a couple of biographies that Jesse James did the same thing. The gang would be dressed in ragged clothes while robbing the bank/train. Then they'd ride away and change into suits and ties.
 
D

dyl

New member
Over the years I've noticed that wearing a uniform at work makes me anonymous. People notice the uniform, not me. I've actually run into client employees away from work and watched them try to figure out where they knew me from.
Click to expand...

Do you mean you wear a company uniform, or the clothes you've chosen?
 
M

Moonglum

New member
dyl said:
Do you mean you wear a company uniform, or the clothes you've chosen?
Click to expand...
I wear a company uniform at work but I have some leeway. I have to wear a company issued uniform shirt with the company logo and the "Private Security" patch but the handbook only specifies "Black Cargo Pants" for my pants.

The black Wrangler Cargos are an approved substitute for the company issue pants
 
B

Brit

New member
Quite some time ago, I was driving through Virginia. Dropped by a friends place of work. He was an Instructor at the FBI Academy.

Everybody, Instructors, and students were wearing 511s! I bought a pair in tan.
I have worn them ever since. Size 38X30. Still at age 85, wearing them. With a neat white beard, and hair. My wife of 28 years, a seamstress, (a retired accountant too) stitches a seam right down the front of the legs. Looks like they were freshly just ironed. By the way still the same size 38X30.

Same 1" belt, a Frequent Flier no metal anywhere. Kydex outside the belt holster at around 3-30pm. On the offside, a $13.00 single Glock mag pouch, for the Glock 17 magazine, for a mag change for my Glock 19 night sighted pistol.

A Surefire very bright flashlight is next to that magazine. I don't like lights on pistols. Living in Florida a short-sleeved shirt, or Guyabara look local, no one seems to link the combination with LEO. 85-year-old Cop? Yea right.
Coupled with a very lovely older Lady on my arm. Like all CCW licensed people, I hope, I carry every day. Back to the 511s, I have black and green ones as well. On our last trip to Italy/England/Ireland, quite a few 511 type pants there also. Coach drivers liked the 511 Vests also.

Last but not least, a folding 3" Benchmade clipped to my pocket.
 
D

dyl

New member
I have worn them ever since. Size 38X30. Still at age 85
Click to expand...

Brit, you are the oldest person I know of that wears 511 pants. And usually the folks I meet in their 70's - 80's have a fondness for Buck knives and Case knives. Either the buck 110 or a little slip joint knife in a pocket.
 
M

Moonglum

New member
dyl said:
Brit, you are the oldest person I know of that wears 511 pants. And usually the folks I meet in their 70's - 80's have a fondness for Buck knives and Case knives. Either the buck 110 or a little slip joint knife in a pocket.
Click to expand...
He's living out his super hero fantasies
 
C

CDW4ME

New member
Its almost always summer weather in FL; I wear cargo shorts with a untucked shirt everywhere.
Glock 23 + spare mag, wherever.
attachment.php
 
O

ojibweindian

New member
Since forever, during the summer months I wear tucked dress shirts, jeans, sneakers, and a light weight sport coat that covers a full sized 9mm or 45 ACP in an OWB holster.

This also is my attire when not carrying.

During the winter months, I swap out the sport coat for something a bit heavier.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top