The Most Successful Handgun Design Ever
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DAVID NANCARROW
New member
I'll go with the dropping barrel Browning design. More manufacturers seem to use this or the Petter modification, which does away with the locking lugs for a squared off chamber and oversized ejection port.
For revolvers, the S&W is probably the most wide spread-for instinctive pointing and simplicity, the SAA likes my shooting style!
For revolvers, the S&W is probably the most wide spread-for instinctive pointing and simplicity, the SAA likes my shooting style!
Some very good and valid point's-
all are worthy of an arguement. Certainly John Browning's
design paved the way for other's to copy. But, with the
introduction of the Glock in 1980, a new chapter in a long
and storied firearm's history began. Going back to the day's
of the Colt Single Action, new firearms inovation's were met
with some despair; as numerous user's didn't realize the
event's they were surrounded by would become part of
American folklore. Then with Horace Smith and Douglas B.
Wesson's invention of the first double action revolver, a
new day dawned in the firearm's industry. With the very
first introduction of the .357 magnum in 1935; this duo
knew they had met with success.
Enter the Ruger .22 semi-automatic in 1949. Bill Ruger and
Alex Strum's design became an instant success. With Ruger's
technology, and Alex Strum's money; this partnership became
almost as storied as that of Smith & Weeson, only to see the
untimely death of co-founder and friend Alex Strum. But, Ruger
pressed on, offering his famed auto-loader at a bargain price.
And today, Ruger firearm's are some of the most well built
firearm's available to the American consumer.
In closing, other's have come along to claim a piece of the pie;
but their design's and technology have kept them a safe
distance away from these major player's.
Respectfully,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member
all are worthy of an arguement. Certainly John Browning's
design paved the way for other's to copy. But, with the
introduction of the Glock in 1980, a new chapter in a long
and storied firearm's history began. Going back to the day's
of the Colt Single Action, new firearms inovation's were met
with some despair; as numerous user's didn't realize the
event's they were surrounded by would become part of
American folklore. Then with Horace Smith and Douglas B.
Wesson's invention of the first double action revolver, a
new day dawned in the firearm's industry. With the very
first introduction of the .357 magnum in 1935; this duo
knew they had met with success.
Enter the Ruger .22 semi-automatic in 1949. Bill Ruger and
Alex Strum's design became an instant success. With Ruger's
technology, and Alex Strum's money; this partnership became
almost as storied as that of Smith & Weeson, only to see the
untimely death of co-founder and friend Alex Strum. But, Ruger
pressed on, offering his famed auto-loader at a bargain price.
And today, Ruger firearm's are some of the most well built
firearm's available to the American consumer.
In closing, other's have come along to claim a piece of the pie;
but their design's and technology have kept them a safe
distance away from these major player's.
Respectfully,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member
Eric Larsen
New member
Rough question.....the highest form of flattery is a clone.
Wheel guns...S&W.........
S/auto 1911, Browning HP and CZ 75
Design Browning everything......
Shoot well
Wheel guns...S&W.........
S/auto 1911, Browning HP and CZ 75
Design Browning everything......
Shoot well
Mike Irwin
Staff
I think the Smith & Wesson revolver design has a very legitimate claim on this.
It's very likely that more K-frames have been made than any other single specific design -- better than 20 million by S&W alone. Add to that the larger and smaller cousins, the J, L, N, and the few M frames, and your probably pushing closer to 30 million.
Then, on top of that, throw in all of the copycats that have been made over the years, the exact to near exact copies made in Spain prior to WW II, the earlier Taurus, Rossi, and Llama guns, and you have a mind-numbing number of firearms having been made, all patterned after a single design.
All total? The number of S&W & clones and copies made over the years could well approach 50 to 75 million.
The basic Browning design for both blowbacks and locked-breech guns has been widely copied, but many of these guns have incorporated functional design changes that take the basic design in new directions. As a progeniator, the Browning designs also have a valid claim on the title, but it's kind of tough to attribute the blowback design to Browning and Browning alone. It was being worked on by different makers in both Europe and the US at the same time -- Browning's was just the best mouse trap.
It's very likely that more K-frames have been made than any other single specific design -- better than 20 million by S&W alone. Add to that the larger and smaller cousins, the J, L, N, and the few M frames, and your probably pushing closer to 30 million.
Then, on top of that, throw in all of the copycats that have been made over the years, the exact to near exact copies made in Spain prior to WW II, the earlier Taurus, Rossi, and Llama guns, and you have a mind-numbing number of firearms having been made, all patterned after a single design.
All total? The number of S&W & clones and copies made over the years could well approach 50 to 75 million.
The basic Browning design for both blowbacks and locked-breech guns has been widely copied, but many of these guns have incorporated functional design changes that take the basic design in new directions. As a progeniator, the Browning designs also have a valid claim on the title, but it's kind of tough to attribute the blowback design to Browning and Browning alone. It was being worked on by different makers in both Europe and the US at the same time -- Browning's was just the best mouse trap.
Jody Hudson
New member
Revolvers are fine but too thick for me.
SO:
1. Glock, especially with the octagon barrel
2. Makarov which improved several other designs
3. Browning HP
4. Colt 1911
5. OLD revolvers, even Smiths.
SO:
1. Glock, especially with the octagon barrel
2. Makarov which improved several other designs
3. Browning HP
4. Colt 1911
5. OLD revolvers, even Smiths.
jar,
It certainly appears as though you're using this medium as an attempt to get other posters to concur with your preordained feeling about the most successful handgun design. Without a doubt it's the 1911A1, not the two you have identified. The fact that revolvers have nearly completely faded from competition, law enforcement, and self-defense while the semiauto, especially the 1911A1 design, continues their ascension in popularity is just about all the proof one needs to eliminate the two you offered. Back in the day revolvers were the cat's pajamas, before our ancestors listened to radio on Saturday evenings for entertainment. Like the advent of television and later computers as communication devices, the handgun world was turned on its head by one John Moses Browning and his 1911A1 semiauto pistol.
Take care,
It certainly appears as though you're using this medium as an attempt to get other posters to concur with your preordained feeling about the most successful handgun design. Without a doubt it's the 1911A1, not the two you have identified. The fact that revolvers have nearly completely faded from competition, law enforcement, and self-defense while the semiauto, especially the 1911A1 design, continues their ascension in popularity is just about all the proof one needs to eliminate the two you offered. Back in the day revolvers were the cat's pajamas, before our ancestors listened to radio on Saturday evenings for entertainment. Like the advent of television and later computers as communication devices, the handgun world was turned on its head by one John Moses Browning and his 1911A1 semiauto pistol.
Take care,
Mike Irwin
Staff
Little in love with your 1911 there, Elvis? 
Granted, the revolver doesn't have the kind of hold it once had on competitive or police use, but the contention that the revolver has faded from self-defense use is, well, incorrect.
If you take a look at the number of new revolver model/caliber combinations introduced in the last 10 to 15 years that have CCW applications, you'll find that it hangs right in there with the number of semi-autos introduced for the same purpose.
You'll also find that sales figures for revolvers for CCW use are not as weak as you might want to think.
And, when you get right down to it, the 1911 and its progeny, the single-action type handgun, is also losing/lost must of the ground that it once had.
Most of the popular police handguns in the United States now employ variants of the Charles Petter dropping block barrel (that's not the right term) locking system, not the Browning system. And, to begin with, the 1911 never was widely adopted by police forces in the United States, while at one time virtually ever major and semi-major police force in the United States, and many around the world, employed Smith & Wesson revolvers.
The 1911 continues to be a niche design, with strong sales, but has long been surpassed in raw sales figures by Glocks, Sigs, etc., guns that have a double-action type mode of trigger operation.
Also, more S&W-style revolvers are made every year that 1911 style handguns.
As for your final comment, that John Browning turned the firearms world on its ear with the 1911, I guess that's why -- while the 1911 was adopted as the military handgun of choice for 70 plus years -- it never made the same sort of inroads into the civilian, especially the police, markets. It wasn't until the 1970s that semi-automatic handgun sales in the United States outpaced revolver sales, and it wasn't until the early 1990s that most police forces in the US were carrying semi-autos, not the Smith & Wesson revolvers that had been standard for nearly 50 years.
And, those officers weren't carrying handguns designed by John Browning.
Finally, when you get right down to it, the 1911 and its progeny never gained anything even remotely resembling the world-wide acceptance that S&W revolvers/clones did. The raw numbers alone can tell you that.
I applaude your love for the 1911 and the JMB designs -- I know I really like mine, as well -- but they just never gained the kind of world-wide distribution that the S&W revolver designs did.
And given that Jar asked what the most successful design of all time was, 50 to 75 million S&Ws certainly gives it a bite that the 1911 can't hope to match.
Granted, the revolver doesn't have the kind of hold it once had on competitive or police use, but the contention that the revolver has faded from self-defense use is, well, incorrect.
If you take a look at the number of new revolver model/caliber combinations introduced in the last 10 to 15 years that have CCW applications, you'll find that it hangs right in there with the number of semi-autos introduced for the same purpose.
You'll also find that sales figures for revolvers for CCW use are not as weak as you might want to think.
And, when you get right down to it, the 1911 and its progeny, the single-action type handgun, is also losing/lost must of the ground that it once had.
Most of the popular police handguns in the United States now employ variants of the Charles Petter dropping block barrel (that's not the right term) locking system, not the Browning system. And, to begin with, the 1911 never was widely adopted by police forces in the United States, while at one time virtually ever major and semi-major police force in the United States, and many around the world, employed Smith & Wesson revolvers.
The 1911 continues to be a niche design, with strong sales, but has long been surpassed in raw sales figures by Glocks, Sigs, etc., guns that have a double-action type mode of trigger operation.
Also, more S&W-style revolvers are made every year that 1911 style handguns.
As for your final comment, that John Browning turned the firearms world on its ear with the 1911, I guess that's why -- while the 1911 was adopted as the military handgun of choice for 70 plus years -- it never made the same sort of inroads into the civilian, especially the police, markets. It wasn't until the 1970s that semi-automatic handgun sales in the United States outpaced revolver sales, and it wasn't until the early 1990s that most police forces in the US were carrying semi-autos, not the Smith & Wesson revolvers that had been standard for nearly 50 years.
And, those officers weren't carrying handguns designed by John Browning.
Finally, when you get right down to it, the 1911 and its progeny never gained anything even remotely resembling the world-wide acceptance that S&W revolvers/clones did. The raw numbers alone can tell you that.
I applaude your love for the 1911 and the JMB designs -- I know I really like mine, as well -- but they just never gained the kind of world-wide distribution that the S&W revolver designs did.
And given that Jar asked what the most successful design of all time was, 50 to 75 million S&Ws certainly gives it a bite that the 1911 can't hope to match.
Good thread, but let's talk DESIGN, not specific guns.
I think Nancarrow hit it right on - the linkless dropping barrel design, specifically one that locks the barrel hood in the slide ejection port. Pretty much every pistol designed after the mid-late 70's uses this feature, except straight blowback guns. If you go by how many are carried/used currently, Browning's design gets the nod.
Then again, all DA revolvers use the same basic design, but I don't know how many are carried today. If you go by how many have been made and are still around, the DA revolver is probably the most common (successful) design.
The wildcard is the straight blowback pistol - I've no clue who to credit with this, but my guess would be Browning. How many are in use, God only knows.
I think Nancarrow hit it right on - the linkless dropping barrel design, specifically one that locks the barrel hood in the slide ejection port. Pretty much every pistol designed after the mid-late 70's uses this feature, except straight blowback guns. If you go by how many are carried/used currently, Browning's design gets the nod.
Then again, all DA revolvers use the same basic design, but I don't know how many are carried today. If you go by how many have been made and are still around, the DA revolver is probably the most common (successful) design.
The wildcard is the straight blowback pistol - I've no clue who to credit with this, but my guess would be Browning. How many are in use, God only knows.
Mike Irwin
Staff
"but was the concept behind most auto and semi-auto rifles and machine guns."
Uh, care to explain/expand on that?
I can't think of a single semi-auto rifle or machine gun that uses a 1911-style action.
Browning really didn't pioneer anything startlingly new with his machine guns, either. Just design differences on a basic theme that made them among the most reliable around.
Contrast that to Browning's swinging link method for unlocking the barrel, which was new and original.
Morgan,
"Then again, all DA revolvers use the same basic design..."
Well, when you get right down to it, so do most semi-autos, which are variations on a standard operating theme, just as the different revolver manufacturers have different variations on the "flop out cylinder" revolver design.
The fact remains, though, that the S&W lockwork design, which is markedly different from Colts, has been installed in 50 million + revolver.
In 1955, Smith & Wesson made more K-frame .38 Spl. revolvers (nearly 500,000) than the United States military made/purchased 1911s during its entire 70 year history. During the War, S&W was making even more K-frames every year.
The blowback type handgun was actually being worked on, as I noted, by a number of different designers at the same time, including Mauser in Germany and Beretta in Italy.
Where Browning really shone with the concept, though, was in designing not only the guns, but new cartridges to go with them.
Uh, care to explain/expand on that?
I can't think of a single semi-auto rifle or machine gun that uses a 1911-style action.
Browning really didn't pioneer anything startlingly new with his machine guns, either. Just design differences on a basic theme that made them among the most reliable around.
Contrast that to Browning's swinging link method for unlocking the barrel, which was new and original.
Morgan,
"Then again, all DA revolvers use the same basic design..."
Well, when you get right down to it, so do most semi-autos, which are variations on a standard operating theme, just as the different revolver manufacturers have different variations on the "flop out cylinder" revolver design.
The fact remains, though, that the S&W lockwork design, which is markedly different from Colts, has been installed in 50 million + revolver.
In 1955, Smith & Wesson made more K-frame .38 Spl. revolvers (nearly 500,000) than the United States military made/purchased 1911s during its entire 70 year history. During the War, S&W was making even more K-frames every year.
The blowback type handgun was actually being worked on, as I noted, by a number of different designers at the same time, including Mauser in Germany and Beretta in Italy.
Where Browning really shone with the concept, though, was in designing not only the guns, but new cartridges to go with them.
Mike,
In keeping with the theme of this thread, which is the most successful handgun design ever, I am firmly committed to my opinion that the 1911A1 is so that. Its raison d'etre was battle: It was designed and built for that purpose, and to date no other entry into that category has come close to matching its effectiveness. Sure, it's a difficult handgun for many to handle proficiently as is required for law enforcement use, but that does not preclude its superiority for that application, especially in tactical applications; i.e., SWAT. And it is certainly a powerful cartridge, the .45 ACP; maybe more so than the average person requires and can use with confidence. Again, not a reason to reduce its stature. How many people do you think selected a .38 Special revolver for self defense because they were of the opinion that the 1911A1 was too much gun in too hard a configuration to learn to use effectively? In contrast, the revolver is much more easy to learn to use.
Prior to the development of the .45 ACP, the .38 Special revolver was the sidearm of our military. That the 1911A1 supplanted the revolver as a battle sidearm should be an indication that the revolver's grip on the defensive sidearm market has waned. While the revolver was revolutionary at one time, especialy so the Peace Maker from Colt, I don't think it had that world-wide impact of the 1911A1. In fact, I am of the opionion that no other handgun has been as widely replicated as the 1911A1.
Finally, in the realm of law enforcement, it seems that the .45 ACP cartridge is once again gaining favor. While it may come in flavors other than the 1911A1, it is most difficult for me to imagine the success of the .45 ACP sans the 1911A1 and vice versa. It would not surprise me to learn in the immediate future that the .45 ACP is the most popular contemporary law enforcement caliber.
While I own and like many handgun designs including S&W revolvers, it is my opinion none have matched the impact made on the handgun market to the extent of the 1911A1. In fact, were I to buy another center fire handgun it would be a 1911A1 replica chambered in .45 ACP.
BTW, the "K" Frame is a damn good design, especially as a Model 19. However, I like to older R&P design due to their buttery smooth actions.
In terms of impact, there are many elements to be considered, one of which is application of new technology/configuration. With that in mind, and considering the era when they were introduced, don't you think the Peace Maker had a much greater impact on the handgun market than did the "K" Frame?
Adios amigo,
E
In keeping with the theme of this thread, which is the most successful handgun design ever, I am firmly committed to my opinion that the 1911A1 is so that. Its raison d'etre was battle: It was designed and built for that purpose, and to date no other entry into that category has come close to matching its effectiveness. Sure, it's a difficult handgun for many to handle proficiently as is required for law enforcement use, but that does not preclude its superiority for that application, especially in tactical applications; i.e., SWAT. And it is certainly a powerful cartridge, the .45 ACP; maybe more so than the average person requires and can use with confidence. Again, not a reason to reduce its stature. How many people do you think selected a .38 Special revolver for self defense because they were of the opinion that the 1911A1 was too much gun in too hard a configuration to learn to use effectively? In contrast, the revolver is much more easy to learn to use.
Prior to the development of the .45 ACP, the .38 Special revolver was the sidearm of our military. That the 1911A1 supplanted the revolver as a battle sidearm should be an indication that the revolver's grip on the defensive sidearm market has waned. While the revolver was revolutionary at one time, especialy so the Peace Maker from Colt, I don't think it had that world-wide impact of the 1911A1. In fact, I am of the opionion that no other handgun has been as widely replicated as the 1911A1.
Finally, in the realm of law enforcement, it seems that the .45 ACP cartridge is once again gaining favor. While it may come in flavors other than the 1911A1, it is most difficult for me to imagine the success of the .45 ACP sans the 1911A1 and vice versa. It would not surprise me to learn in the immediate future that the .45 ACP is the most popular contemporary law enforcement caliber.
While I own and like many handgun designs including S&W revolvers, it is my opinion none have matched the impact made on the handgun market to the extent of the 1911A1. In fact, were I to buy another center fire handgun it would be a 1911A1 replica chambered in .45 ACP.
BTW, the "K" Frame is a damn good design, especially as a Model 19. However, I like to older R&P design due to their buttery smooth actions.
In terms of impact, there are many elements to be considered, one of which is application of new technology/configuration. With that in mind, and considering the era when they were introduced, don't you think the Peace Maker had a much greater impact on the handgun market than did the "K" Frame?
Adios amigo,
E
Mike Irwin
Staff
Elvis,
Ok, that's certainly a different, but valid, take on the question, one that I hadn't considered.
Obviously we have a much different view of the scope of success -- I think you're limiting yourself, though, and painting yourself into a very narrowly defined corner by concentrating on a very narrow criterion of success -- essentially military only.
As we both know, history is rife with "successful" designs that never made it commercially or militarily, or even designs that were a "success" as military handguns, but which for various reasons can only be viewed as odditites.
I'm taking a much broader view of the term success -- encompassing civilian, police, and military acceptance, tempered by units manufactured, and the willingness of other companies/manufacturers to either adopt elements of the design, or the design as a whole. In that sense, I don't think the S&W design has a peer.
Couple nitpicks, but important -- The .38 Special was NOT the standard military round prior to the .45 -- that was the .38 Long Colt, a much less powerful .38 caliber round.
Also, the adoption of the 1911 as the standard US military sidearm is no way negates the revolver's position. Again, you're taking a very narrow view of the subject. Consider that the 1911 was adopted in 1911. The semi-automatic didn't make significant inroads with police, or really even in the civilian market, in the United States until after World War II, 40 years later. The timeframe you're attempting to use to sustain that particular part of the argument is just a little too lengthy, in my mind.
Even then, the United States military during WW II issued more revolvers for combat use than 1911s, including those chambered in .38 Spl. and .45 ACP. That, however, was more a function of the fact that 1911 production couldn't be increased nearly quickly enough, and significant resources for the production of revolvers already existed in the US.
I'm also not "reducing the stature" of the 1911 based on the power of it's .45 ACP round. Remember, the 1911-design has also been produced in .22, .38 Super, 9mm, .40 ACP, 10mm, and possibly others just by makers in the United States, not to mention European calibers.
The K-frame has also been chambered in a wide variety of cartridges, plus the multitude of other calibers on the larger and smaller frames.
If anything, this would increase the standing of both firearms due to the flexibility of the platform.
It's also very hard to say that the revolver, especially the K-frame and other S&W designs on the same platform, haven't had world-wide impact, in fact I'd say just the opposite is true.
The British and assorted commonwealth nations, during both World Wars, used very few 1911s, but literally millions of Smith & Wesson revolvers.
As noted above, the US military issued several hundred thousand S&W revolvers in both wars.
The S&W revolver, in various calibers, has been used as the standard police armament of major and minor police and paramilitary forces world wide.
Aside from the United States, only two nations that I can think of off the top of my head adopted the 1911/1911 variant as standard military side arms -- Argentine and Norway.
I'd have to say that I'd give the High Power an edge over the 1911 in that sense, given that it was adopted, in one form or another, by at least a dozen nations.
The .45 round certainly is regaining some favor, but as often as not, it's not in a John Browning inspired platform, as you note. But other calibers have pretty much smoked it, just as other rounds have no smoked the .38 Spl./.357 Mag. (not going to count the .357 Sig). But it can also be truthfully said that the .38 Spl. is also still a popular law enforcement round, as many small-frame .38s are still sold to officers as backup/off duty guns.
As for the Peacemaker's "impact," quite frankly, I'd have to say no. Much of the Peacemaker legend is just that, legend created by Hollywood.
What few people realize is that the Peacemaker was a well-marketed middle-sized fish in a rather large pond. If you go back and review the production records for a number of companies, including Remington, Smith & Wesson and Merwin & Hubert, you'll see that they were selling nearly as many revolvers as Colt was, yet in the movies and TV shows the Colt Peacemaker is the only revolver ever produced during that time frame, and EVERYONE, from the gun slinger to the little old widow lady living on a fixed income, had one, or two, dangling from the hips.
It simply didn't work that way.
And, quite frankly, the sales figures of those revolvers combined couldn't even begin to hold a candle to the revolvers that were being sold en-masse, the small "pocket & social" guns made by literally dozens of companies, including Colt, S&W, M&H, Forehand & Wadsworth, H&R, Iver Johnson, etc.
In the end, though, I've got to stick with my personal definition of what constitutes a successful design -- acceptance, production, adoption, impact, and emulation, and the Smith & Wesson-design Hand Ejector has extremely high standing in all of those categories.
Bountyhunter
"I am a designer and I'll tell you how to spot the best design: been around over 100 years, people have been working with it continuously but have made no major changes: ergo, the 1911."
Your math is off. It's not 2011 yet.
And, quite frankly, the basic S&W revolver design has been around, with no changes really more major than the changes that have been made to the basic 1911 design, since 1896.
You know, this is turning into one extremely interesting discussion.
Ok, that's certainly a different, but valid, take on the question, one that I hadn't considered.
Obviously we have a much different view of the scope of success -- I think you're limiting yourself, though, and painting yourself into a very narrowly defined corner by concentrating on a very narrow criterion of success -- essentially military only.
As we both know, history is rife with "successful" designs that never made it commercially or militarily, or even designs that were a "success" as military handguns, but which for various reasons can only be viewed as odditites.
I'm taking a much broader view of the term success -- encompassing civilian, police, and military acceptance, tempered by units manufactured, and the willingness of other companies/manufacturers to either adopt elements of the design, or the design as a whole. In that sense, I don't think the S&W design has a peer.
Couple nitpicks, but important -- The .38 Special was NOT the standard military round prior to the .45 -- that was the .38 Long Colt, a much less powerful .38 caliber round.
Also, the adoption of the 1911 as the standard US military sidearm is no way negates the revolver's position. Again, you're taking a very narrow view of the subject. Consider that the 1911 was adopted in 1911. The semi-automatic didn't make significant inroads with police, or really even in the civilian market, in the United States until after World War II, 40 years later. The timeframe you're attempting to use to sustain that particular part of the argument is just a little too lengthy, in my mind.
Even then, the United States military during WW II issued more revolvers for combat use than 1911s, including those chambered in .38 Spl. and .45 ACP. That, however, was more a function of the fact that 1911 production couldn't be increased nearly quickly enough, and significant resources for the production of revolvers already existed in the US.
I'm also not "reducing the stature" of the 1911 based on the power of it's .45 ACP round. Remember, the 1911-design has also been produced in .22, .38 Super, 9mm, .40 ACP, 10mm, and possibly others just by makers in the United States, not to mention European calibers.
The K-frame has also been chambered in a wide variety of cartridges, plus the multitude of other calibers on the larger and smaller frames.
If anything, this would increase the standing of both firearms due to the flexibility of the platform.
It's also very hard to say that the revolver, especially the K-frame and other S&W designs on the same platform, haven't had world-wide impact, in fact I'd say just the opposite is true.
The British and assorted commonwealth nations, during both World Wars, used very few 1911s, but literally millions of Smith & Wesson revolvers.
As noted above, the US military issued several hundred thousand S&W revolvers in both wars.
The S&W revolver, in various calibers, has been used as the standard police armament of major and minor police and paramilitary forces world wide.
Aside from the United States, only two nations that I can think of off the top of my head adopted the 1911/1911 variant as standard military side arms -- Argentine and Norway.
I'd have to say that I'd give the High Power an edge over the 1911 in that sense, given that it was adopted, in one form or another, by at least a dozen nations.
The .45 round certainly is regaining some favor, but as often as not, it's not in a John Browning inspired platform, as you note. But other calibers have pretty much smoked it, just as other rounds have no smoked the .38 Spl./.357 Mag. (not going to count the .357 Sig). But it can also be truthfully said that the .38 Spl. is also still a popular law enforcement round, as many small-frame .38s are still sold to officers as backup/off duty guns.
As for the Peacemaker's "impact," quite frankly, I'd have to say no. Much of the Peacemaker legend is just that, legend created by Hollywood.
What few people realize is that the Peacemaker was a well-marketed middle-sized fish in a rather large pond. If you go back and review the production records for a number of companies, including Remington, Smith & Wesson and Merwin & Hubert, you'll see that they were selling nearly as many revolvers as Colt was, yet in the movies and TV shows the Colt Peacemaker is the only revolver ever produced during that time frame, and EVERYONE, from the gun slinger to the little old widow lady living on a fixed income, had one, or two, dangling from the hips.
It simply didn't work that way.
And, quite frankly, the sales figures of those revolvers combined couldn't even begin to hold a candle to the revolvers that were being sold en-masse, the small "pocket & social" guns made by literally dozens of companies, including Colt, S&W, M&H, Forehand & Wadsworth, H&R, Iver Johnson, etc.
In the end, though, I've got to stick with my personal definition of what constitutes a successful design -- acceptance, production, adoption, impact, and emulation, and the Smith & Wesson-design Hand Ejector has extremely high standing in all of those categories.
Bountyhunter
"I am a designer and I'll tell you how to spot the best design: been around over 100 years, people have been working with it continuously but have made no major changes: ergo, the 1911."
Your math is off.
It's not 2011 yet. And, quite frankly, the basic S&W revolver design has been around, with no changes really more major than the changes that have been made to the basic 1911 design, since 1896.
You know, this is turning into one extremely interesting discussion.
Mike Irwin
Staff
Maybe we'd have more success in "reverse engineering" this question, starting with the LEAST successful handgun design, and working to the front. In other words, no one was really beating down the doors to copy these abominations before man and God...
I immediately nominate the following:
1. (all time worst) Japanese Type 94.
2. Japanese Type 04/14 Nambu
3. Just about any French military revolver.
4. The Nagant Gas Seal revolvers.
Those are the ones that immediately come to mind...
I immediately nominate the following:
1. (all time worst) Japanese Type 94.
2. Japanese Type 04/14 Nambu
3. Just about any French military revolver.
4. The Nagant Gas Seal revolvers.
Those are the ones that immediately come to mind...