The Mauser 98.

[SaxonPig]

Particularly the BRNO made rifles. I feel happy just holding one.

Some unknown Bavarian craftsman reworked a military 98 into this. That is the original military stock, by the way. Hard to believe he was able to make it into sporter configuration.

Late 1940s and early 1950s BRNO made small ring, square bridge 98 actions into very cool hunting rifles. I bought this one about 10 years ago and it was new in the the original box. Dated 1949.

I picked up the full stock version a few years later but the wood was trashed and I had to replace it.

Not a 98 but a classic BRNO. Bought this after a very long search. Stock was painted black for some reason so I refinished the wood. Didn't turn out too bad.

 

[oldscot3]

Very nice specimens there. Your guns reminded me of a friend of mine who had a sporter conversion mauser that appeared very "old world" like yours. Some of the steps were turned off of the military profile barrel like yours, but then a nearly full length rib was attached. It had a dovetail in it for the front sight. My friend's rifle had been butchered beyond salvation by previous owners, so it was not in shooting condition, but I always wondered how that rib might affect accuracy.

 

[GarandTd]

I have a sporterized Gew98. It is also wearing it's original military stock that's been reshaped. The story from my Dad was that his uncle brought it back from the factory in Germany. I don't know who did the Sporter work on it. The stock is pretty beat, but I love that rifle and wouldn't really change it. It shoots great for a 100 year old specimen.

 

[tahoe2]

Saxon always has the best looking rifles, and I agree with the Mauser 98 preference.
All my turn-bolt guns are Mauser's, with a couple small rings thrown in for fun !
My favorite calibers are 7x57, 7.65x53 and 8x57, only cause I don't yet have a 9.3x57 or 9.3x62.

 

[GarandTd]

1916 Spandau

 

[Wyosmith]

Ahhh -----the 98.
I still love them.

My favorite rifle to build classic rifles on.

I have a very high appreciation for many other actions too, but none give me as big a warm-fuzzy as a good 98.

 

[doofus47]

I went through a phase of K98.
Very good times.

Those are some nice looking rifles.

 

[jfruser]

I love mauser 98s too. I lament the paucity of 8x57 hunting round options. Remington 8x57 feels like a 30-30.

 

[Wyosmith]

American 8X57 is loaded down to "lawyer proof" it against someone putting it into an old .318" bore rifle instead of the more common .323" bore.

You can buy higher powered stuff from Europe, but for the price of 3 boxes of the stuff you can buy a basic reloading set up.
In a good 98, with loads of your own the 8X57 is in the same league as the 30-06 and is fine for hunting anything the 06 will work for.

I used my 8X57 Mauser to kill both my elk and my deer this year. I made it for myself last year and figured I'd use it this year. French Walnut stock, original 29" GI barrel I shortened and turned down. Far more accurate than I expected. I like this little rifle a lot.

 

[emcon5]

American 8X57 is loaded down to "lawyer proof" it against someone putting it into an old .318" bore rifle instead of the more common .323" bore.

Yep, there are two specifications for what we call 8mm Mauser, the US SAMMI spec "8MM Mauser", which has a max pressure of 35K psi, and the CIP "8x57 IS" which has a max pressure of ~56K psi. To further muddy the waters, "8x57 IS" is often written as "8x57 JS, evidently because the Germans used a Gothic script, and the I looked like a J.

Generally, what you can get in the US is "8MM Mauser", and it the anemic SAMMI spec.

Privi Partisan actually makes both, if you look at their online catalog, they have entries for both "8MM Mauser" and "8x57 IS", with the latter having a higher velocity for the same bullet. For example, the "8x57" IS 198 gr FMJ is 2425 FPS, (essentially the 1934+ military load), but the "8MM Mauser" 198 gr FMJ is only 2180 FPS. Naturally, they only sell the wimpy stuff in the US.

Hornady and Nosler seem to be the only US folks making "real" 8x57 ammo, Hornady has two options, a 195 hunting bullet and a 196 gr match, both @ 2500 FPS, which is pretty close to the original military load.

Wolf Gold is a decent hunting bullet made by Privi and loaded to 8x57 IS specs, 196 gr SP @ 2461 fps, but I haven't seen it around in a while.

Nosler has a 200gr AccuBond or Partition at 2475 fps, and a 180gr Ballistic tip at 2600 FPS, but they are really proud of them, at about $2.50 per round.

Seller & Belot and Norma both make a few 196 loads at ~2600 FPS, but availability is spotty, and while the price on the S&B is decent, the Norma stuff is up in the $2.50/round neighborhood.

 

[SaxonPig]

I have a large batch (3,000 rounds) of Austrian 7x57 that I bought dirt cheap many years ago. Loaded with a 139 grain BT spitzer FMJ bullet this stuff is hot. Clocks 2925 FPS and is amazing in its consistency. Like 5 FPS variation.

I haven't clocked any European 8x57 but I suspect it's loaded hotter than U.S. commercial ammo.

I keep one original military 98 around to remind me how it all started.

 

[Jim Watson]

I recall greatly admiring one of those full stocked Brnos. If it had been a 7mm or .30 instead of 8mm, I would probably have bought it. Just as well I didn't, I am not a hunter and it would have been an occasional centerfire plinker like my Model 70.

Same guy later had a Haenel sporter with its complex flush magazine under an 1888 type bolt in 9x57.

As to the ammo, you have to wonder how many J bore rifles are still in use to be protected with soft loads.

 

[Wyosmith]

The "J" bore was totally discontinued in 1905 for military use, but NOT for sporting use. In fact, several makers continued to use the .318" bore for about 20 more years. So fining .318" bore sporting rifles is not all that uncommon, especially in Europe. Added to this mix is the fact that bullets were made in both diameters for many years because the 8X57J is not the only round using that diameter of bullet.
8X43Rimmed
8X57 Rimmed
8X71
8X75, both rimmed and rimless versions
and probably a few I have missed.
Reloading is not a strictly American hobby. So in central Europe before WW1 and to some extent after WW1 you could buy "8 MM bullets" in .318" .321." (same as our 32 Win Special) 323", and also for 328" ( I still don't know what those were loaded in)
The European nations were not so burdened with litigation as modern post WW2 America is, and anyone who owned a rifle was assumed to know what ammo it was made for. If you put a wrong size bullet into it it was your fault.

Suing someone because you acted in stupidity or ignorance was not an option there.

In the USA most 8MM Mausers were bring-backs from the World Wars, and not all of them were military rifles, so Remington, Winchester and Federal all make the bullets with thin jackets and soft lead cores, and make them to be safe is someone fires them in a .318" bore. I guess I could understand that precaution from their prospective.


I was the CEO of Cast Performance Bullet Co. and I understand the need to be safe, but I didn't have the same "ax over my head" as the ammo companies do. We only made the bullets. The pressure of the ammo was 100% the responsibility of the person assembling the ammo.

Like a lumber yard selling wood to contractors. If a builder makes an unsafe building with lumber he purchased from "XYZ Building Supply", it's not the fault of the seller of that wood.

 

[Jim Watson]

The 8mm Hungarian was .329" according to CotW.

There was the European School that thought there ought to be someplace for the metal displaced by the lands to go. This led to bullets smaller than groove diameter. T
There was also the Competing European School that thought "tight" barrels were more accurate.

he American Plan is for groove diameter bullets.

 

[GarandTd]

Is there a designation for what models use rimmed cartridges vs rimless? My Spandau utilizes the rimless cartridges. The rimmed version won't chamber.

 

[Jim Watson]

There are very few bolt actions for rimmed cartridges. Not zero, but not many. Even fewer when limited to Mausers.

If you got stuck with 8x57 JR for your Spandau '98 that was somebody's error.

 

[Wyosmith]

GaranTd, it might be a good idea to pull a bullet and see if the case will chamber. Sometime the case is fine but the bullet and neck are too big around if you are trying to chamber a .323 bullet instead of a .318.

Slant Box Mausers were made (for rimmed shells) and they were very fine actions, but most were made for long shells. I have not seen one for a 57MM shell, but that doesn't mean they were not made.

Take your action out of the stock and see if this is what you have. With the magazine out it's very obvious if you have one made for rimmed shells.

The Siamese Military Mausers were made with slant boxes, so you can look that up on google to see what they look like.

 

[GarandTd]

My Gew98 fires the rimless cartridges. I didn't know a rimmed one existed until I inadvertantly bought a box of rimmed cartridges at the LGS. When I opened the box(at home)I could tell they were not right. I don't remember what brand the rimmed ones were, but the clerk let me exchange them the next day for the Hornady match grade rounds. The rimmed cartridge is wider due to the rim and wont chamber all the way, keeping the bolt from locking.

 

[Wyosmith]

Just as a side note, here is what the above pictures full-stock Mauser does with Speer 200 Grain bullets and 46 grains of 4064 at 107 yards (my range is not level and 100 yards from my bench happens to be in a gully, so I put my target on the hill above, hence the 107 yard range)




These bullets can be very accurate, but their jackets are thin, so I do not trust them for hunting large big boned game. I would think that even if they come apart they will be OK for deer because at 200 grains they can shed 66% of their weight and still do fine, with some meat loss of course. Not the best bullet for hunting, but OK for game up to about 250 or 300 pounds (Just my best guess. I have not killed anything with them yet)
The rifle above has a military barrel in it. it was 29 inches long and stepped of course. I cut it to 18.5" and tapered it. I was expecting at get 1.5 to 2" groups from it, but was shocked when it printed various loads at 11/16" down to 5/16". This groups measured .630" center to center.

So for you guys out there with old M98s, if you have good bores, you might try this load

 

[salt and battery]

I have a new tanker Mitchell mauser 8x57 and mine loves 175 sierra spitzer and varget powder real accurate and the only combo that rifle liked