The hammer has fallen...

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Playboypenguin

Moderator
They should just submit that bad boy and be done with it.
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Just where are you supposing they submit it and to who? They have already done all they are required to do and then some. It exists, it has been varified by reliable outside sources, and it doesn't even make sense that he would have run if the story was true. You would really have to be both biased and blind to continue such a ridiculous story.
 
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dipper

New member
No, there's no requirement they submit anything to a federal court.

Well, yeah, it will be submitted as proof ( or something will) when/if this case continues.
 
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Playboypenguin

Moderator
I just checked the copy of my birth certificate and guess what it says at the top..."CERTIFICATE OF LIVE BIRTH." My partners just says "BIRTH CERTIFICATE" on his, but he is from a different state.

Know why? Because my state requires certificates to also be issued for still births and other unliving fetus. Certificates of live birth are issued to living births. A death certificate will follow in due time. A different certificate is issued for stillborns and no death certificate will follow. This is done to better keep track of mortality rates and to keep more specific public health records.

But I am very interested in hearing what you think the story is...why is this not a birth certificate? What does a BC from Hawaii look like?
The document is a "certification of birth," also known as a short-form birth certificate. The long form is drawn up by the hospital and includes additional information such as birth weight and parents' hometowns. The short form is printed by the state and draws from a database with fewer details. The Hawaii Department of Health's birth record request form does not give the option to request a photocopy of your long-form birth certificate, but their short form has enough information to be acceptable to the State Department.
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madmag

New member
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birth_certificates



The long form usually includes parents' information (address of residence, race, birth place, date of birth, etc.), additional information on the child's birthplace, and information on the doctors that assisted in the birth of the child. The long form also usually includes the signature of the doctor involved and at least one of the parents [3
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Whereas the long form is a copy of the actual birth certificate, a short form is a document that certifies the existence of such certificate, and is usually titled a "Certification of Birth" or "Certificate of Birth Registration"
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Now just provide the long form infromation (birth certificate) and we can all go on with arguing 9mm VS .45ACP....or such.
 
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dipper

New member
This is all probably a moot point anyway.
There are not enough "fringies" to put BO in the White House anyway.
Can't wait for the debates though, it will be entertaining to see BO go "off the cuff" against McCain.
 
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madmag

New member
It looks like this is the guy that the Obama people will have to answer to.

Hon. R. Barclay Surrick.

My personal guess is Obama will come up with the full birth certificate...but I have been known to be wrong.:rolleyes:
 
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Playboypenguin

Moderator
Now just provide the long form infromation (birth certificate) and we can all go on with arguing 9mm VS .45ACP....or such.
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Why should he need to do that? The certificate he has is legal and verifiable proof that the long form exists. There is no information on the long form that is required to establish he citizenship.

People repeating this fabrication are verging on moving from disingenuous to outright disgusting. It is such a transparent ploy. It doesn't matter if it is a lie as long as you can get people to repeat it. It is right out of Carl Roves playbook and it is part of what will turn the middle of the road person against the republican party even further and will assure Obama's victory.
 
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madmag

New member
Why should he need to do that? The certificate he has is legal and verifiable proof that the long form exists. There is no information on the long form that is required to establish he citizenship.
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Fair question. You are correct there is no information on the long form that directly effects citizenship. I am sure people want to see the long form to make sure the details support Obama's complete story, or history. Apparently the sitting judge thinks the present document of live birth is not good enough to eliminate legal questions. Or, the judge at least wants the live birth document in court to prove it is indeed valid.

But why go through all this effort by making arguments why the complete document should not be presented? Just produce the document and stop arguing...easy solution. This guy is running for President. Any candidate of any party should be willing to fully divulge his birth records...period.

Now excuse me I see some whirling blue lights in my back yard I have to attend to.:)
 
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ak74

New member
too much corruption all through our govt.us Americans have to ban together and stand up to these *******s, we gotta keep our rights if we dont stop this stuff now were ****ed.

excuse my language i am just mad.
 
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Playboypenguin

Moderator
Apparently the sitting judge thinks the present document of live birth is not good enough to eliminate legal questions.
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The sitting judge does not necessarily think in such thing. At this stage all he has done is pretty much say that the paperwork was completed properly to file suit. He has not made any judgment on merit.
But why go through all this effort by making arguments why the complete document should not be presented?
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Because it is a sleazy ruse. It does not matter if the story is completely made up if you can get enough gullible people to repeat it. As this thread makes obvious, some people are more than willing to believe a lie aven when countered with the truth.
 
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huchahuchax

New member
Why should he need to do that? The certificate he has is legal and verifiable proof that the long form exists. There is no information on the long form that is required to establish he citizenship.

People repeating this fabrication are verging on moving from disingenuous to outright disgusting. It is such a transparent ploy. It doesn't matter if it is a lie as long as you can get people to repeat it. It is right out of Carl Roves playbook and it is part of what will turn the middle of the road person against the republican party even further and will assure Obama's victory.
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There is more to this issue than the birth certificate. Berg also supposedly has evidence that Obama is still a citizen of Indonesia, based on Obama's childhood school records claiming Indonesian citizenship, as well as an Indonesian passport that Obama has travelled with after moving back to the States. If Obama gave up his citizenship in Indonesia, then he had to reclaim it when he turned 18 by taking the oath of allegiance. If he didn't do that then he simply is not eligible to be President. There isn't anything malicious about that - it is simply the law.
 
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kennybs plbg

New member
You'd think any proud American accused of not being an American would be insulted and jump at the first opportunity to remove all doubt. To do otherwise is simply un-American.

kenny b
 
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Playboypenguin

Moderator
You'd think any proud American accused of not being an American would be insulted and jump at the first opportunity to remove all doubt. To do otherwise is simply un-American.
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See, there is where you are making your first mistake. He did prove he was an American. He produced the same certificate any of us would be able to produce. The problem is he gave proof and the right wing nutjobs tried to deny it was real. When it was confirmed it is indeed real they try to cloud the issue further by asking why is it not the long form. When it is shown that the long form is not required, nor even issued to an individual, they think of some other reason to try to keep the lie alive.
 
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madmag

New member
Because it is a sleazy ruse.
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Again, poor argument. Not going to work in court. Just produce the documents and stop all this expenditure of energy. Simple. Not rocket science.

I will say again. I believe from what I have read that Obama is a natural born citizen, I just want that last "T" crossed. Should not really be a problem. Open the hospital records and produce the complete documents. How easy can it get?:confused:
 
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Playboypenguin

Moderator
Again, poor argument. Not going to work in court. Just produce the documents and stop all this expenditure of energy.
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If the case ever gets to that stage I am sure a copy will be produced and the case will be dismissed. That will still not stop the right wing wackos. They will then just start claiming it was a fake and that the judge was a left wing sympathizer. If you allow yourself to get dragged into such sleazy games there is no way to win. It is best to stay above them.
 
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