The Greatest Combat Rifle Ever Made

[STLRN]

MacGille

I guarantee you today troops get better training than in the old days. I entered the service at the end of the cold war, and back than allot of the GySgts, MSgts and MGySgts talked about how much better the training was than they got prior to going to Vietnam. The training today is even better than it was when I entered the service. Granted the discipline may have been better back than, but the training is much better. Prior to my last deployment, we got out box new rifles and carbines and everyone shot thousands and thousands of rounds through their individual weapon and crew served weapons on various live fire courses.

 

[Buckythebrewer]

The rounds used in the ar15 today Have bigger stingers than in the past.The 77gr mk mod1-2 round will sting you DEAD at ranges well beyond 600 meters. BC makes the difference down range and the ar15 stings more like a dagger now with the ammo being used today.My vote is the Long lasting,Most flexible and capable, ever improving, and always dominating AR15/m16

 

[SR420]

Today’s variants of the M14 are highly regarded and extremely successful when used as an SASS and as a DMR.
Soldiers that know anything about the modernized M14 seek them out and request them.
The M14 is primarily notable for being America's Greatest Combat Rifle.

The M14 is in a separate class all by its self.
The M14 is a special purpose battle rifle that does just about everything you could possibly want to do very well.

 

[STLRN]

Today’s variants of the M14 are highly regarded and extremely successful when used as an SASS and as a DMR.
Soldiers that know anything about the modernized M14 seek them out and request them.
The M14 is primarily notable for being America's Greatest Combat Rifle.

According to you, but there are several people who are active duty members, myself included, who would say otherwise.

 

[SR420]

I say that you and others are in the minority, but I accept your opinions.

 

[STLRN]

Okay, how many combat troops do you associate with on a daily basis?

 

[Ant1]

You will be hard pressed to find a conflict that doesn't have the AK47 in majority. In most countries you can find more AK's then handguns. It may not be as sexy or as cool as an M14, AR15, or others mentioned. But we are talking fighting weapons here. The AK has proven itself over the years to be in the running.

 

[stillborn]

AK47, i wonder how many battles an ak or variant has been in since its birth.

 

[Baba Louie]

Fascinating thread. Battle rifle(s) continue to evolve as does the manner of conflict in which they are used... hopefully the two coincide for awhile.

For early 21st century conflicts, fought in the manner they're fought, I'd vote for the M-16 family due to the modularity and accessories that can be applied when utilized by trained troops (w/ religious maintenance). The 5.56 round is... adequate, but I do think something closer to the 6.5/6.8 might offer better results at longer range... and one can replace the upper to do so. (Probably never happen)

I remember reading about the competition between the M14 and the FAL, the politics involved, etc. and I could never figure out why you'd want to lighten up an M1 Garand, add a fragile flash hider and use it on full auto? But that's just me. My Dad's two younger half-brothers were in the USMC back in the early 60's, carried them in SEA in '65, removed the flash hider and I did listen to them gripe about using the darned things in combat when we visited (I actually got to shoot one w/ the switch at Lejuene back in '67 or so... real cool for a 12 year old)(FWIW).

So maybe an argument can be made for the BM-59 or the L1A1.

An argument can also be made based on the AK variant for use by unorganized types, but the system lacks that same flexibility. Besides that, I have issues when firing mine from a prone position. But it obviously works well.

But there's something about an HK G-3 that really really floats my boat.

 

[SR420]

a very different perspective

STLRN Okay, how many combat troops do you associate with on a daily basis?

A few in person, several on-line, but my personal experience should help to explain why I praise the modernized M14 type rifle the way I do.

Put it this way, how people that you associate with on a daily basis own or have access to a modernized M14? Have you ever sampled one?


Admittedly, I’m looking at this from a very different perspective, you see I have been shooting my personal modernized M14 type rifle since
October of 2005 (about 250 rounds through a can). My MK14 SEI is nothing like the well known traditional M14 that we all know and love.
The modernized M14 shares few if any negative traits associated with the M14 of old. The SEI conversion/build transforms the old M14 into
a heavy duty, ultra reliable, low maintenance, extremely accurate modernized MBR. You really must try one before you die…

~ Back to me, my rifle was built by Ron Smith of SEI with all of the military Crazy Horse mods right before one of many large military contracts
came in. Few people have had one of these as long as I have, I was shooting my MK14 SEI long before the PJs were issued their MK14 SEI rifles.

Other than the cast semi-auto Springfield receiver and a slightly longer and heavier SAGE EBR stock my MK14 is the same as the MK14s
SEI built for the PJs. The PJs have reported kills @ 800 yards with their MK14s. They have also reported a near zero failure rate.



I realize this may not be well known outside a smallish, but growing circle of individuals, but it's what I know to be true. I have fired about
1300 rounds from my Crazy Horse barreled MK14 and about 1200 rounds from my MK14 with the chrome lined, standard profile MK14 barrel.
I can report Zero failures, Flawless function and Sub MOA performance with many types of ammo.

Many more troops should be as lucky as the PJs and myself to utilize a battle rifle that is this good.

BTW, the 22" Crazy Horse M-14SE shares the near zero failure rate of the MK14 and has recorded many 1100 yard kills.
I can't say much more about the M-14SE because I have never fired one.

 

[STLRN]

Well the Army and Marines have been getting kills with 5.56 weapons to 7-800 meters so although it is unusual it is not that big of a deal. I know of Marine from 8th Marines who got a 700 plus meter kill with a M4 and ACOG in Afghanistan.

My big question to why Para-Rescue man whose primary con-ops is not offensive combat operations are routinly taking 800 m shots?

My last tour, the ODA that had a compound next to mine had M14s of various configurations, shot them a few times. Never really impressed with them. I know who run the SDM program for the army and they have said they were having reliability issues with the M14 hence the choice to go with an accurized M16, instead of a M14.

 

[SR420]

You just don't know how good the M14 can be.

... they have said they were having reliability issues with the M14 ...

Those are old rack grade M14s that have not been modernized.
They are only slightly better than a commercial M1A type clone.

I wouldn't trust one with my life and our troops deserve better.
I think more of our troops deserve modernized, enhanced M14 rifles.

 

[STLRN]

Some are, some aren't.

The issue is that that allot of dust and sand gets in the gap on the side of the receiver. The infantry center was surprised when reports came back about them being sand sensitive, they anticipated accuracy and field serviceability related problems, but they didn't anticipate sensitivity to sand because "everyone knew" how reliable the M14 was. I guess they forgot to tell the end users that problem they were having were impossible.

 

[SR420]

So, are you telling us you have no experience with the platform?

 

[STLRN]

I have shot one, beyond that I haven't lived with one in the field for an extended period of time, have you?

I know the big army has and they are still switching to the 5.56 SDMs.

 

[Greg Bell]

I think the best combat rifle ever is the magpul Masada.

 

[The Guy]

Blah blah blah.

In reality the best rifle is the one you use. Not the one you have nor the one you want, but the one that you rely on before any other.

I like Ford/I like Chevy.......

What ever.

It is all oppinion anyway untill your ideas are put to the test in a critical situation. Like someone else shooting back, in this case.

I picked the M-14 waaaaay back in this thread when I thought my oppinion would sway others. I still will. However, if it really ever hits the fan, and all I am lucky enough to have with me is a Kraig with 53 rounds, well there is my favorite MBR.

What maters in life is how you handle the situation at hand, not your learned nor you unlearned oppinion, as it is. A Rifleman will make do with the tools at hand, be it a FN-FAL, M4, AK, or the affore mentioned Kraig. A rifleman will sit and argue the pepsi challenge all day long.

Remember that oppinions can vary, sometimes in the face of all evedence. The sooner we all accept this, the sooner this old thread can rest in peace.

Take two asprins and go shooting in the morning.

With what ever gun you like.

 

[GreenFlash107]

My vote! BAR

 

[HorseSoldier]

My big question to why Para-Rescue man whose primary con-ops is not offensive combat operations are routinly taking 800 m shots?

They aren't exclusively using the M14, whatever the case. At least the couple times I've dealt with PJs or Special Tactics guys, they showed up to train with M4A1s.

 

[wolverine350]

I would have to say the M1 Garand, M1A1 National Match, 03-a3 Springfields