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The future of gun contol
- Thread starter walkin' man
- Start date
Mike Spight
New member
In the oath I took upon accepting my commission, I swore to "...SUPPORT and DEFEND the CONSTITUTION AGAINST ALL ENEMIES FOREIGN and DOMESTIC...". That portion of the oath preceeds that where I swore to "...obey the orders of the President and the officers appointed over me...".
Bottom line...I WON'T COMPROMISE. I just wish we could have come up with the $ to publish the FOUP page in USA Today...IMHO, we need to be in the anti's collective faces. Continue being logical and politely firm (able to back up our postion with historical fact and the results of academic study), but (if necessary) being rude, crude and loud. I personally don't even rule out getting up close and physical with one of those idiots if they attempt to push me too far. It's sad that things have come to that point, but they have.
If anyone of us is ever in a debate with an anti and they start sticking their finger in our face (or chest), shouting and generally abusing us, shame on you (or me) if we don't invite them outside and then deck their ass.
OK, I'm finished...I'm really a nice, peace loving, sensitive, 90's kinda guy.
Bottom line...I WON'T COMPROMISE. I just wish we could have come up with the $ to publish the FOUP page in USA Today...IMHO, we need to be in the anti's collective faces. Continue being logical and politely firm (able to back up our postion with historical fact and the results of academic study), but (if necessary) being rude, crude and loud. I personally don't even rule out getting up close and physical with one of those idiots if they attempt to push me too far. It's sad that things have come to that point, but they have.
If anyone of us is ever in a debate with an anti and they start sticking their finger in our face (or chest), shouting and generally abusing us, shame on you (or me) if we don't invite them outside and then deck their ass.
OK, I'm finished...I'm really a nice, peace loving, sensitive, 90's kinda guy.
rabbit assassin
Moderator
Compromise is how the anti-gun lobby wins. After the Port Arthur massacre the antis only pushed for the banning of certain rifles and shotguns, they left pistols and other guns alone. They have admitted they did this so they could get it through knowing asking for banning of everything would fail.
Well guess what in the last week the anti-gun lobby has had tv ads asking for a ban on pistols, this is the big push that is on now and there will be possibly be something happening quite soon about it.
Of course a lot of pistol shooters didn't care about the gun laws brought in after the Port Arthur massacre because it didn't affect them, well it is now and they have themselves to blame. After that they are going for a ban of guns in homes, they should be kept at clubs. then all guns will be banned.
Don't underestimate the anti-gun lobby, they divide and conquer and it has worked and continues to work in Australia.
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Drop by and visit at www.gun-center.com
Well guess what in the last week the anti-gun lobby has had tv ads asking for a ban on pistols, this is the big push that is on now and there will be possibly be something happening quite soon about it.
Of course a lot of pistol shooters didn't care about the gun laws brought in after the Port Arthur massacre because it didn't affect them, well it is now and they have themselves to blame. After that they are going for a ban of guns in homes, they should be kept at clubs. then all guns will be banned.
Don't underestimate the anti-gun lobby, they divide and conquer and it has worked and continues to work in Australia.
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Drop by and visit at www.gun-center.com
I for one am tired of us Private Citizens "compromising" away our legal rights. Enough already! The only way that the government can make more laws for gun control is when we let them. The citizens still control the government. (Or at least we are supposed to!)
Within the US population are groups that are against gun ownership (Handgun Control, INC.) and against hunting (PETA). What will happen to hunters/gun owners when these two groups realize that they have the same ultimate goals. Will we have the numbers to stand up to them at that point?
A suggestion made on a radio talk show was that "...hunters could go to designated hunting areas, check out a gun for hunting, and return it before the curfew time. That would be more safe..." Maybe there would be several of every kind of shotgun so that we could all shoot what we liked, and we could return them dirty, and rent a dog too... Come on!!! No sniveling anti ANYBODY will tell me that I can't own and do what I want! Unless they have lobbied to get the law on their side. Then I either give up and go home, or continue and risk jail, or worse.
Fear will drive people to do a lot of things that they normally do not do. Think about this: If you register your name and serial number of the guns that you (currently) own, that goes on record somewhere. What will keep LOE's from finding that list if the gov. finally outlaws guns altogether? THAT is a real fear! That should send a chill down all of our spines, and get us doing something about it. Without private gun ownership, hunting will shrivel and be phased out. At that point, both the gun control and anti hunting groups will have beaten us!
Are we going to wait to react to this situation, or do we need to act before it happens. A pro-active attitude may save us from trying to explain our beliefs while being handcuffed in our homes. The Second Amendment doesn't stand by itself. If we believe in it, and want to keep it intact, we need to stand up for it. The NRA is sometimes criticized for being too strong in their ideas. Well, that's probably right. Can a fight be won by having a weaker stand than the opposition? Not often. If gun owners are the minority, and population wise we may be, then we must be louder and more vocal of our beliefs to preserve our rights. A unified voice will have a greater impact than any number of individuals. Lets ensure that we can keep our guns before we pick apart the groups that are helping to save them.
Within the US population are groups that are against gun ownership (Handgun Control, INC.) and against hunting (PETA). What will happen to hunters/gun owners when these two groups realize that they have the same ultimate goals. Will we have the numbers to stand up to them at that point?
A suggestion made on a radio talk show was that "...hunters could go to designated hunting areas, check out a gun for hunting, and return it before the curfew time. That would be more safe..." Maybe there would be several of every kind of shotgun so that we could all shoot what we liked, and we could return them dirty, and rent a dog too... Come on!!! No sniveling anti ANYBODY will tell me that I can't own and do what I want! Unless they have lobbied to get the law on their side. Then I either give up and go home, or continue and risk jail, or worse.
Fear will drive people to do a lot of things that they normally do not do. Think about this: If you register your name and serial number of the guns that you (currently) own, that goes on record somewhere. What will keep LOE's from finding that list if the gov. finally outlaws guns altogether? THAT is a real fear! That should send a chill down all of our spines, and get us doing something about it. Without private gun ownership, hunting will shrivel and be phased out. At that point, both the gun control and anti hunting groups will have beaten us!
Are we going to wait to react to this situation, or do we need to act before it happens. A pro-active attitude may save us from trying to explain our beliefs while being handcuffed in our homes. The Second Amendment doesn't stand by itself. If we believe in it, and want to keep it intact, we need to stand up for it. The NRA is sometimes criticized for being too strong in their ideas. Well, that's probably right. Can a fight be won by having a weaker stand than the opposition? Not often. If gun owners are the minority, and population wise we may be, then we must be louder and more vocal of our beliefs to preserve our rights. A unified voice will have a greater impact than any number of individuals. Lets ensure that we can keep our guns before we pick apart the groups that are helping to save them.
I was having a lot of trouble getting into the forums the past few nights, so I am a little late with this. I was watching Fox News the other night, and they were having a face to face with John Lott and Micheal Beard, hosted bt Paula Zahn. Well, of course Mr. Lott was pro-gun, and Beard was the anti-gunner. Whenever Beard was giving his side, Mr. lott was quiet and attentive. Whenever Lott was giving his side, Beard would constantly interupt, and shout Mr. Lott down. Ms. Zahn did very little to stop this rude behavior, other than two half
@$$ed attempts, which Beard ignored. But then, this is how the anti-gunners operate, isn't it. When your opponent has factaul data that destroys your arguments, shout him down so that no one can make sense out of what is being said. Frankly, I think Beard actually helped our side, due to his boorish actions. I sent Fox News an E-mail expressing my displeasure at the unprofessional way Ms. Zahn handled the whole affair.
In case no one has noticed, Fox News has been the most fair to gun owners of all the networks. Yes they could be much fairer than they are, but they are better.
Paul B.
COMPROMISE IS NOT AN OPTION!
@$$ed attempts, which Beard ignored. But then, this is how the anti-gunners operate, isn't it. When your opponent has factaul data that destroys your arguments, shout him down so that no one can make sense out of what is being said. Frankly, I think Beard actually helped our side, due to his boorish actions. I sent Fox News an E-mail expressing my displeasure at the unprofessional way Ms. Zahn handled the whole affair.
In case no one has noticed, Fox News has been the most fair to gun owners of all the networks. Yes they could be much fairer than they are, but they are better.
Paul B.
COMPROMISE IS NOT AN OPTION!
I absolutely agree with the sentiment behind the various "No More Compromise" assertions voiced here, but they don't mean anything. Why? Because each tiny little infringement is too small to make us get excited (I mean excited as in "hoist the black flag and start slitting throats"). A d@mn long time ago Alexis deTocqueville predicted that this was how the United States would descend into tyranny (in "Democracy in America"), and he was EXACTLY correct. The only people who are outraged enough to actually mean it when they say "No More Compromise" are so few in number that when they act (like McVeigh did), their motives are weak and their only effect is to strengthen the position of the statists. The rest of us bluster and swagger, drawing a line in the sand and saying "No More Compromise!". The b@stards smirk at us and step over the line, so we draw another one and say "No More Compromise!" just as loudly as before.
I hate to admit it, but we are losing the war on a variety of fronts. Our children get pumped full of anti-liberty propaganda by schools and the media, while Mom and Dad both are off working to pay the bills under a crushing tax burden. We are constantly villified in the press, on the streets, and by our own elected representatives. We are being marginalized as effectively and as surely as the Jews of the Third Reich.
I hate to admit it, but we are losing the war on a variety of fronts. Our children get pumped full of anti-liberty propaganda by schools and the media, while Mom and Dad both are off working to pay the bills under a crushing tax burden. We are constantly villified in the press, on the streets, and by our own elected representatives. We are being marginalized as effectively and as surely as the Jews of the Third Reich.
cornered rat
Moderator
The trouble with Jews and gun owners is that, being generally educated industrious and law-abiding, we try for a political solution far too long. Judenrat (sp?), an appointed Jewish body, was used as a puppet by the Germans...is the NRA unwhittingly getting used the same way, to fight losing legislating actions when the time for them has passed?
My guess is that the most effect would come from an outright civil war with no winners...and that looks like the best case scenario. More likely, a british-style outcome.
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Cornered Rat
ddb.com/RKBA Updated March 20
"Disarm, then past the barbed wire, into the oven and out of the smoke-stack..."
My guess is that the most effect would come from an outright civil war with no winners...and that looks like the best case scenario. More likely, a british-style outcome.
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Cornered Rat
ddb.com/RKBA Updated March 20
"Disarm, then past the barbed wire, into the oven and out of the smoke-stack..."
Hmm. It does seem that the NRA is the whipping boy of the antis, doesn't it?
With the anti-gun feeding frenzy that has developed over the bodies of the Littleton victims, I am reading about a whole lot of proposals that I can only describe as reckless or insane. Ban all handguns! Confiscate all privately held weapons! Tax ammunition into oblivion! Don't the idiots who spout that extremist garbage realize that "You can have my gun when you pry it from my cold, dead fingers" isn't a joke, a boast or a threat... it's a promise? A lot of our wise and munificent leaders regularly propose anti-gun legislation that would plunge the USA into civil war. Actually, I guess they serve their cause well, since they are the baseline against which we are forced to "compromise".
In any case, your point about Jews trying to "work within the system" for too long is well taken. Gun owners are also industrious and law-abiding, perhaps to a fault. I am sure that my grandchildren will be glad the Second Amendment protects the rights of the National Guard while they are being marched into the detention camps.
[This message has been edited by David Z (edited May 07, 1999).]
With the anti-gun feeding frenzy that has developed over the bodies of the Littleton victims, I am reading about a whole lot of proposals that I can only describe as reckless or insane. Ban all handguns! Confiscate all privately held weapons! Tax ammunition into oblivion! Don't the idiots who spout that extremist garbage realize that "You can have my gun when you pry it from my cold, dead fingers" isn't a joke, a boast or a threat... it's a promise? A lot of our wise and munificent leaders regularly propose anti-gun legislation that would plunge the USA into civil war. Actually, I guess they serve their cause well, since they are the baseline against which we are forced to "compromise".
In any case, your point about Jews trying to "work within the system" for too long is well taken. Gun owners are also industrious and law-abiding, perhaps to a fault. I am sure that my grandchildren will be glad the Second Amendment protects the rights of the National Guard while they are being marched into the detention camps.
[This message has been edited by David Z (edited May 07, 1999).]
A lot of the problem that I see is that we are afraid to remind everyone that WE are the ones with the guns. Seems everytime that we state that we get accused of treason or some such non-sense.
What I propose is a naborhood watch program. Where each of us pledges to defend all others within our neighborhood. When they come for our guns, the phones start ringing and we show up to where they are. We let the anti's know about this and make it clear that it is strictly defensive. We will not start something. But we sure will end it.
As part of this we need to ignore the laws that are currently on the books. And pledge to defend each other, both in the courts and in our homes when they come to arrest us.
Lets throw it back into their laps. Make them the agressor. I will never be the agressor, but neither am I afraid to use my arms in defense.
I am already practicing civil disobiedence (sp) and jury nulification.
Richard
What I propose is a naborhood watch program. Where each of us pledges to defend all others within our neighborhood. When they come for our guns, the phones start ringing and we show up to where they are. We let the anti's know about this and make it clear that it is strictly defensive. We will not start something. But we sure will end it.
As part of this we need to ignore the laws that are currently on the books. And pledge to defend each other, both in the courts and in our homes when they come to arrest us.
Lets throw it back into their laps. Make them the agressor. I will never be the agressor, but neither am I afraid to use my arms in defense.
I am already practicing civil disobiedence (sp) and jury nulification.
Richard
David Z, I agree with you. The reason I haven't sent in my $50 is because, to me, FOUP sounds like a threat. To make a threat you must be willing to take action if your threat is ignored or challenged. This whole argument concerns the Constitution of the United States of America. Are you willing to die for what you believe in? Are you willing to risk your freedom? That is what it all boils down to. Are you ready to make that commitment today? This is extremely serious business, something I will not take lightly.
If "they" pass a law that says I can only have a 5 round magazine and I have sent in my $50 to FOUP, what do I do then? Bury my 10 rd magazines? %$&^ that! I don't know when the time to really lock and load will be but I'm pretty sure they're not going to announce it on the evening news.
I'm actually very uncomfortable making a post like this but each of us needs to decide these things now. Maybe even discuss them a little more openly, while the first amendment is still intact. I would never advocate anything that is illegal. Did "they" ask you to compromise your rights away? Nobody called and asked me if there should be an "assault weapons" ban. I am a registered voter and I vote every time. I would vote for it to never rain on weekends and the result would be the same.
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"Time changes everything"
If "they" pass a law that says I can only have a 5 round magazine and I have sent in my $50 to FOUP, what do I do then? Bury my 10 rd magazines? %$&^ that! I don't know when the time to really lock and load will be but I'm pretty sure they're not going to announce it on the evening news.
I'm actually very uncomfortable making a post like this but each of us needs to decide these things now. Maybe even discuss them a little more openly, while the first amendment is still intact. I would never advocate anything that is illegal. Did "they" ask you to compromise your rights away? Nobody called and asked me if there should be an "assault weapons" ban. I am a registered voter and I vote every time. I would vote for it to never rain on weekends and the result would be the same.
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"Time changes everything"