The Dreaded Case Prep and a New Toy

[Brian Pfleuger]

I've got $185 in to it and it arrived TODAY!

What a co-inky-dink!

It is a very heavy, solid unit and seems to be of very durable construction.

That's my impression too. I can't compare it to a Giraud, except that Frankford Arsenal is much easier to spell, but this thing FEELS solid as a rock. Almost feels over built for what it does. The body is SOLID and HEAVY metal, like a gearbox or high-end electric motor.

It has the appearance and feel that makes me say, "This is for trimming shards of brass? Geez, over-kill much?!"

I'll get 'er running tonight and see. I've got a pile of .204 brass that's been waiting (literally for years) for a trimmer.

 

[Sevens]

I'm no tool-genius, so advance apologies if there is a far better industry term for what I'm trying to describe, but...

It seems to be designed such that it doesn't really care or notice if there is a "load" on it, or if it's doing work. Of course, I'm trimming .223 brass. Maybe it's different if you are grinding on .358 Winchester or something.

Basically, you turn it on and it hums... and it doesn't seem to care one way or another that you are stabbing it with brass. It just cuts 'em and chamfers 'em and goes about it's business.

 

[Xfire68]

While it may not be the best tool for high speed & high volume that AR guys need (they use the Dillon trimmer mounted to the top of their press...), the Giraud is the Rolls-Royce of trimmers.

While I am happy that I bought the Giraud trimmer and extra cutting head for 300 Blackout as it really is a fantastic trimmer I did find out in pretty short order that I am in need of the Dillon trimmer. At the time I purchased the Giraud unit my budget did not include a Dillon 1050 which I now have! The Giraud trimmer may be up for sale soon?

 

[Farmland]

First let me say I hear you on the trimming. I also use the Lee set up and while it was ok and speed was ok my hands hurt like all heck when I got done. I use to do all of my 223 with this set up. For my 2506, 30-06 etc I used the traditional RCBS trimmer. That works very well when doing small batches.

There just had to be a better way doing so many 223's. Thus cam the Dillon trimmer that my friend bought and I can use. We are neighbors so unless he is using it it is always available. So it is free.

Man what a great way to trim the 223's. No more sore hands and it count down on the time spent. I usually trim in batches of 1,000.

I can't speak for what you bought but knowing that we both did it the same way I know you will be thrilled.

If it wasn't for having access to the Dillon trimmer I would certainly give this some consideration, after all I like the price.

 

[Gadawg88]

Brian - I for one am very interested in your full review once you have put it through its paces.

 

[Longshot4]

I notice those drivers have a pretty giddy wobble. I like hand tools.

 

[Brian Pfleuger]

Alrighty, well, first trip up the learning curve done!

The first thing I notice is that it's very difficult to tell when the case contacts the cutter on the initial set-up (before it's running) if I follow their directions. As I screw in the case holder, the case touches the cutter and is simply pushed out as the holder is threaded in. I solved that problem by starting with the collet cap tightened on the case, that way I could feel it contact the cutter. My first attempt resulted in a case 0.30 too short because of following their instructions. Oh well. Easy enough once I figured it out.

After set up, I trimmed 10 .204Ruger cases. They started out between 1.841 and 1.847. Finished lengths ranged from 1.8395 to 1.841, except for one somehow came out at 1.8365. I have no idea how that happened.

The second set of 10, I decided to be more gentle and follow their instruction of rotating the case while it is being cut. These all came out between 1.8395 and 1.841, except one that I could not get below 1.844. I had an epiphany and decided to check the headspace on that case... yep, it was 0.004 longer than the others. Fascinating, eh? I ran it through the body die, got it the same length as the others and it trimmed down to 1.841. Cool.

I'm wondering if these little bitty .204 cases don't give me a very good feel for the process. I note that they are BARELY large enough for the cutter (it has a debris hole in the center).

I notice that the attachments are not straight. Every one of them (except the cutter) wobbles while they turn. I imagine I can give them a little bend and straighten them out. I don't think it effects anything in terms of final product but...

The inside chamfer tool is just barely small enough for .204. With the tip wobbling, it's a bit tricky to line the case up. Not a big issue but annoying, I got used to it after a bit.

All the tools seem very sharp. No pressure whatsoever is required to chamfer/deburr.

The machine is not watch TV quiet but it's not overly loud. It basically sounds like what you would expect from a low-speed, high-torque electric motor.

The initial set up took me about 5 minutes. Now that I've done it and have a technique, I don't think it will take more than 2. The adjustments are marked as small as 0.0025 on the case holder, so getting it right is a snap.

So far, I think this thing is much less tedious than the Lee system I had been using, considerably faster once set up (which is only a couple of minutes) and adjustable, which is a big plus.

I'll update when I do another cartridge.

(Oh, I changed out the firing pin spring in my M77 MkII tonight too)

 

[std7mag]

Sold!!!

Brian,

I'll take that Lee trimmer off of your hands... LOL

Using the individual case length gauges, and doing it all by hand... Don't mind it too much, (it's dad's alone time)... lol

Ken

 

[AllenJ]

Brian, how warm did your unit get? I noticed on mine that is was pretty warm after chamfering/uniforming primer pockets on 50 cases.

Good review on the trimming part, thank you.

 

[Brian Pfleuger]

Good reason to use my no contact infrared thermometer, eh? I'll try that next time. I did the old fashioned back of the hand test. It had probably running continuously for 15 minutes and felt just warm enough to notice that it wasn't room temperature.

 

[chiefr]

Let us know how it works Brian, I would be curious to know how fast it would be when you have to remove far more than normal. IE: Making 8x57 from 30-06.

 

[Brian Pfleuger]

I can tell already that this thing would grind cases to dust in a hurry if you wanted to do it. I'll try it with a ruined case... see how long it takes it to cut the nearly entire neck off.

 

[schmellba99]

The Giraud trimmer may be up for sale soon?

I call first right of refusal!

 

[schmellba99]

I would want to know the following about the FA Trimmer:

1. Duty factor of the motor
2. How bad/far/etc do the brass shavings go? Can you just put a small pan under it and catch them all, or does it sling them everywhere?
3. How often do you need to clean the tool head to keep shavings out?
4. How bad will it hurt when you get your hand caught on the chamfer tool because it sits and spins without any form of guard?

 

[Sevens]

1. I don't know. Is there somewhere you suggest I look to find this answer, like, it it commonly printed on the directions or on a label fitted to a unit? I'll be happy to look.

2. Not bad -- most pile up directly under, but I've seen the occasional shiny bit make it six inches toward me when running the unit on my left, inserting brass with my right hand

3. There are two large holes that allow shavings to fall free of the cutter, but there is a clear plastic "guard" over one of the holes, so the shavings all fall from the one hole. I've only done about 150 pieces of .223 thus far, so time will tell, but my knee-jerk reaction is that I won't be stopping at all to clear shavings from anywhere. I could be wrong...

4. I'd say if ya wanna know how bad it'll hurt, do it and then you'll know. Seems to me that if you're the reckless type, you probably deserve to get whacked now and again. I don't see how hurrying through this type of work is going to pay off, frankly, and if you aren't hurrying, I'm not sure why you're going to get hurt unless you're that guy. And if you're that guy, well, I'd be just as happy if you & your ilk just kept getting hurt at your own pace, but I'll cry when the day comes that all tools and devices get "dumbed down" to protect the innocent children that hurt themselves with tools.

 

[Brian Pfleuger]

I agree with Sevens on all counts.

The shavings drop straight down. I didn't even have the plastic guard on. The cutter isn't spinning fast enough to fling debris very far. I put an old Chinese Take-Out container under the unit, it caught every piece at least to the extent that I didn't find any outside it. Some debris sticks to the cutter as it has grease/lube still on it from packaging that I didn't bother to completely clean.

The cutter has a hole in the center and one bored through the side into that center hole to allow the shavings to fall out. It doesn't spin fast enough that centripetal force would hold them in. I doubt it will ever need cleaning under normal usage.

Hand "caught" in the chamfer tool? That's a non-concern. For one, there are three possible locations, you can pick the one that's least obtrusive to you. I immediately recognized that it stuck out the farthest and I installed it in the hole farthest away, so I never have to reach past it. As far as I know, I never came close to touching it accidentally. In any case, it's no worse than any of the similar machines. Some machines have moving parts that will hurt you if you touch them. Don't do that, or accept the mild dangers of using the machine.

Also, the inserts are 8-32 thread, which is apparently the industry standard (or nearly standard) so any other insert will work if you prefer another brand. I know Hornady's are 8-32 also.

 

[Paul105]

Sounds like a useful and reasonably priced tool.

First off, I also hate case trimming, inside chamfering and outside neck deburring.

Over the last 40+ years, I've accumulated 4 different tools. A Forster hand trimmer, Lyman power trimmer, RCBS Trim Pro power trimmer and the Lee Case Gauge Trimmer (for small batches when I don't want to take the time to set up the RCBS).

Tip for those who can't justify spending the money for the FA:

The Lee is reasonably fast (and kinder to the hands/fingers), when powered by a cordless drill and used with Lee's Universal 3 Jaw chuck and case spinner spindle with drill shank. The Univ 3 Jaw chuck is a great improvement over the provided shell holders. The Ball Grip cutter is a big comfort addition. Here are the individual items in addition to your caliber specific case gauge.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/17...dle-with-drill-shank-for-use-with-3-jaw-chuck

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/35...-3-jaw-chuck-case-holder?cm_vc=ProductFinding

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/136199/lee-case-trimmer-cutter-with-ball-grip?cm_vc=sugv1136199

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/389104/lee-chamfer-and-deburring-tool?cm_vc=sugv1389104


Wish the FA unit had been avail before acquiring the aforementioned tools.


FWIW,

Paul

 

[Brian Pfleuger]

I ran a bunch more cases tonight. I finished up my .204 and did about 20 .22-250.

It's definitely easier to set it up with the bigger .22-250 cases. You can see and feel what's happening much easier. I was lubing, collet sizing and body sizing as I went so I had the machine running for almost 2 hours. At the end of the .204 cases, about 45 minutes in, I checked the temperature on the side of the unit with my infrared thermometer. I read 106 or 121 (depending on emissivity setting). I shut it off for a few minutes to swap everything over to .22-250. I then ran it continuously for about another hour. The thermometer read 111/127.

The trim length of the .22-250 cases was more consistent than the .204. In fact, it was perfectly consistent on the cases I measured. Every single one was 1.902(5). I didn't bother measuring them all though, only about 7.

Interestingly, the large primer cleaner supplied with the unit seems to be on the very large side of tolerances. It is very tight in the pockets of the .22-250 brass (headstamp Frontier, which is Hornday IIRC) and slightly tight in Norma .243Win brass.

 

[Xfire68]

Hope it turns out well for you Brian. I personally try my best to purchase items that have been out for some time and the reviews reflect quality as well as try to buy reloading items that are American made.

 

[F. Guffey]

Interestingly, the large primer cleaner supplied with the unit seems to be on the very large side of tolerances. It is very tight in the pockets of the .22-250 brass (headstamp Frontier, which is Hornday IIRC) and slightly tight in Norma .243Win brass.
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I have primer pocket uniforming tools, I have military crimp removers I run in the RCBS case prep center, I have primer pocket cleaners, they are brushes. I have brushes left over from the Herter days, If I want to screw up a brush all I have to do is use one.

I do not want my primer pocket uniforming tool or the military crimp remover enlarging the primer pocket.

F. Guffey