The Dreaded Case Prep and a New Toy

[Brian Pfleuger]

So, I hate case prep... trimming, deburring, yada, yada, yada. It's a nasty part of an otherwise enjoyable hobby IMO.

I've been looking for a way to do it easier and quicker that works for all cases and doesn't cost a fortune.

I've been using the Lee cutter and lock stud system but it's slow and tedious and, worse, they don't make one for .204Ruger. I looked at their Quick Trim press mounted system but it's still seems rather labor intensive, slow, fairly expensive for what it is and sounds troublesome in reviews, plus a pile of more parts.

I've looked into Possum Hollow trimmers (and similar) but the idea of spending $25-50+ on each tool (meaning $200-$400 or more) and then still having a pile of separate tools is less than appealing to me.

In my searching, I ran across the Frankford Arsenal Case Prep and Trim System. Video here. One unit that does it all. Reviews are excellent, overall.

It is on the UPS truck waiting delivery today. I don't think it's ever been mentioned on TFL, that I recall. I'll be sure to update with my first impressions tonight. Anybody use one yet?

 

[TATER]

Brian, I have been look'en at this thing for about three weeks!! I have not found any reviews, That’s the best price I have seen though.

 

[jimbob86]

I've been using the Lee cutter and lock stud system but it's slow and tedious

I've seen nothing faster than the Lee system chucked into a 3/8" drill.

Trim, chamfer, de-burr, and clean/polish a bottlenecked rifle case in about 10 to 15 seconds.

... though last weekend, I had quite an assembly line going around a picnic table at our campsite- without a drill and only one hand press, we reloaded about 100 30/30WIN and 50 7-08's in under two hours...... from dirty empties to shiny loaded ammo. I assigned a simple task to each person .... if I had another hand press with me, we could have cut the time in half.

 

[TATER]

Would love to know How hot it gets with say, 1.5 to 2 hours of continuous use.

 

[jimbob86]

......that that Frankford Arsenal Case Trimmer will give you different length cases with uniform length of necks, no?

Considering that the firing pin pushes the case forward until stopped by the shoulder ...... then the primer ignites the powder which then temporarily sticks the case to the chamber walls ....... except by the head where it is not supported .... and stretches that portion of the case back to the bolt face ......

That trimmer references off the neck ..... if the case stretched towards the head ....where it is allowed to ..... then what? A case from a hot load will be longer than that from a poofter load, with a shorter neck, right?

Since the whole object of the excercise is to have cases of a uniform length, of what value is this contraption?

Also, with powered chamfer and de-burring, ya gotta be care real carefull, particularly with that VLD style chamfer tool on there .....

 

[F. Guffey]

I have the RCBS 5 station case prep center, it is the first tool out when reloading. I never get into mortal combat with methods and techniques, before the RCBS case prep center I trimmed with a file and a trim die, most accurate. I also have and use the Wilson case trimmer, the Hornady with the universal chuck, the RCBS case trimmer with the collets, then there the trimmer that uses the shorter collets.

F. Guffey

 

[Brian Pfleuger]

I've seen nothing faster than the Lee system chucked into a 3/8" drill.

Even if that's accepted as fact, this thing has to be faster. There is no swapping cases in and out of the holder. I don't see how the Lee system could be fastest, anyway. The Possum Hollow type trimmers must be faster, as they do the same job without having to swap cases in and out of the holder. Anyway, I don't like the Lee system. There's always folks who like and dislike everything, I suppose. I can't stand it. I'll send you mine if you want 'em.

Would love to know How hot it gets with say, 1.5 to 2 hours of continuous use.

I hope to never know. If I had to prep cases for that long I'd pay someone else to do it.

Since the whole object of the excercise is to have cases of a uniform length, of value is this contraption?

Since trimming is done AFTER sizing, all the cases will have the same dimensions (within tolerances) at the shoulder datum. Since this thing indexes on the shoulder, it will trim all cases to the same length from the shoulder to the mouth, which means that all cases will have the same dimensions from all points.

Properly sized cases don't stretch in the head region.

I'm not a gorilla, nor do I go for a "knife edge" on the deburring/chamfer. I'm not worried about it eating the cases.

 

[F. Guffey]

Since the whole object of the exercise is to have cases of a uniform length, of what value is this contraption?

It is an exercise in keeping up. From the beginning there was and is the Wilson case gage. The Wilson case gage is a datum base4d tool, a very precision tool that is far more capable to producing precession measurements than the reloader can comprehend.

Point: your quote. "have cases of a uniform length", A reloader that understands the chamber and dimensions should understand the case measurement from the datum/shoulder to the case head controls case travel. me? I am the fan of cutting down on all that case travel, I off set the travel with the length of the case from the shoulder to the case head.

Not a problem but I have rifles with long chamber from the shoulder of the chamber to the bolt face. I have one chamber that is .016" longer than a minimum length case, that makes it .011" longer than a go-gage length chamber of .002" longer than a field reject chamber.

I could trim the length of the case but in doing so the case would be .016"+ shorter than need to be, So when I trim the case for length I add the .014" to the length of the case.

I also have the Gracey case trimmer, it trims by setting up on the shoulder, back to the Wilson case gage, it is a datum based tool, it measures from the datum to the case mouth and from the datum to the case head and the length of the Wilson case gage has a length that should match the length of the case when the reloader understands what step to measure from and to.

F. Guffey

 

[Blindstitch]

Looks snazzy. I don't process enough brass to make it worth it so the I'll stick with the Lee system.

 

[Brian Pfleuger]

I probably don't either.

The lack of a trimmer for the .204 and then also having to buy yet more pieces every time I had a new cartridge is a major factor for me.

(Besides hating the job anyway.)

 

[JimDandy]

How is that different from the Hornady machine?

 

[TATER]

I hope to never know. If I had to prep cases for that long I'd pay someone else to do it.

I procrastinate until I absolutely have too.

 

[TATER]

Jim,
You can move Quicker, Its like a big Ole Pencil sharpener.

 

[surveyor]

i went a diffrent direction

brian,
trimming was a less than ideal part of the operation for me..

the thing I disliked the most was using the trimmer to check for lengths..

so..I got so disgusted with it and opened the wallet.. I got a CTS trimmer..

with inserts for what I needed to trim..

coupled with the rcbs case prep center, it is about 20 seconds or less to deprime, size, trim, brush inside neck, chamfer, debur, remove crimp, and brush primer pocket..

it is a minimum of handling, and it saves me time.. all cases are prepared the same, just under max length. and it is easy..

I did not want to end up with 5 or more cartridge specific drill mounted trinners, or put each piece of brass in a manual trim pro, even with it powered..

when charging time comes , the rcbs chargemaster comes out..

 

[Brian Pfleuger]

How is that different from the Hornady machine?

It's less that 1/2 the price.

I also read some reviews about the Hornady machine cutting out of square and having length variations. I've been watching it for quite some time, hoping the price would come down. If it had, I probably would have bought it. That's just way too much money, for my needs, to trim cases.

when charging time comes , the rcbs chargemaster comes out..

That's about the same type of system I'm hoping to have. I'll probably do everything at once. I use the Chargemaster too. It's always sitting ready for me before I'm done. I'll neck size (Lee collet), body size with Redding dies, trim etc, seat primer, charge, seat bullet, then tumble finished rounds to remove lube.

It's HERE! If only I didn't have to work for two more hours!

 

[Xfire68]

I have never had any luck with FA products. They are cheaply made and last accordingly.

I know this is 2x the cost but it does the chamfering and deburring at the sametime and fantastic construction. http://www.giraudtool.com/prod02.htm

 

[buck460XVR]

I'll be interested in hearing what you think of it Brian. I too hate the trimming and case prep part of reloading. Thankfully 90% of my reloading is handgun. But those times when I do rifle or trim handgun, I do it in several small batches of what I can do in 15-20 minutes instead of all at once, to beat the boredom.

 

[F. Guffey]

I have never had any luck with FA products. They are cheaply made and last accordingly.

I know this is 2x the cost but it does the chamfering and deburring at the same time and fantastic construction. http://www.giraudtool.com/prod02.htm
__________________

I was thinking this was a about case prep, pick up a case once, do the primer pocket and necks then brush the neck and inside of the case.

Then there are the case holders that should be added to the price, that would be from $35.00 to $45.00 each.

The Little Dandy is a good powder dump but when the price of the rotors is added the machine becomes a major investment.

F. Guffey

 

[Sevens]

Funny that I find this thread!
My buddy has a Giraud trimmer. While it may not be the best tool for high speed & high volume that AR guys need (they use the Dillon trimmer mounted to the top of their press...), the Giraud is the Rolls-Royce of trimmers.

Considering that the Giraud is wholly American made and built in the manner that we all wish EVERYTHING is built, there's no way I can say that it's "not worth" it's price. At $440 and with a wait to get one, however, it's difficult for me to justify for my meager needs.

But I also have used the Lee system for years and while it's a lot of ingenuity for low money (the Lee trademark!) it's a lot of awful torture to the hands and outrageously slow.

I actually saw this new product from Frankford Arsenal mentioned in a tiny little snippet right here on this forum. No review, no discussion, just one guy mentioned it, so I google'd it. It's only been on the market a couple months. There were some reviews and of all, only one negative review. The single bad review had ZERO details, guy simply said it was a waste of his money with not one specific complaint. Shortly after, a commenter claimed that he worked for Frankford and this one bad review was posted even before the product went live. So it appears that the one negative review was someone attempting to submarine a new product.

I ordered mine a week ago. I've got $185 in to it and it arrived TODAY! I already set it up, adjusted it and trimmed about 50 pieces of brass.

The unit runs a lot of torque but at low speed. It's far more quiet than I expected it to be. It is a very heavy, solid unit and seems to be of very durable construction. The instructions were decent and I had no problems getting it up and running and trimming very consistently.

It's still a lot of work for your poor fingers, but I have had the pleasure of using the Giraud and this one does the same thing. I wouldn't even pretend to claim that it's built to the same level of quality as the Giraud, but very early in... I'm quite happy with my purchase.

Oh, and as to some of the questions -- I had mine running for a good 20 minutes and I noticed not even a warmth, let alone HEAT. Don't think of this thing running at the RPM or energy of a hand drill. It's nothing like that.

In comparison to the Hornady, you aren't tasked with chucking any brass. You simply hold each piece in your fingers. No levers, nothing gets tightened or loosened to manipulate each piece.

I'll be sure to update my thoughts on this unit right here in this thread. So far, just an hour in to it... I'm awfully happy that I decided to try it.

 

[AllenJ]

I got a Frankford unit a few weeks ago when Midway had them on sale but have not trimmed anything with it yet. I put my primer pocket uniformer tool on it, their chamfering tools and have done around 100-200 rifle loads with it so far. I have no complaints on that portion of the unit. I'm hoping the trimming portion does as well for me as that is the main reason I got it.