THAT MUCH for a 1911?!

[ImprobableJoe]

I'm not particularly knowledgeable on semiauto pistols, but I can tell you that this same conversation takes place on message boards in every hobby. I'm most familiar with guitar-related boards, but this also happens on home audio and computer forums.

The same basic truth holds in all these situations:

• Some folks will point to the excellent performance of their budget model, while others will spit on them.
• Most folks will accept the general quality of mid-range priced models, with some claiming excellent or poor performance. Some people will claim that the cheap and mid-range products are made at the same place, and others will claim that the mid-range and expensive models share a factory.
• Some people will sing the praises of the most high-end models, a few will attack them as overpriced crap, and most will admit that they are good but not for everyone.

The reality tends to fall somewhere in the middle of all that. It is likely that the cheapest models are just OK, and a few will accidentally "perfect' for some people. It is possible that most models are built in the same factory as more or less expensive versions, but the quality control and materials are different enough to make comparison meaningless. Most (but not all) high-end models are better, but not necessarily so much better that the difference in price is worth the difference in quality. There's the whole "law of diminished returns" to deal with. A $500 pistol might well be twice as good as a $250 pistol, but it is unlikely that a $2000 pistol is four times as good as a $500 model.

None of that means that you should pass up a $2200 pistol. On the other hand, if you can only spend $750 without missing a car payment, you don't have to settle for a piece of junk.

 

[lechiffre]

Different brands of 1911 from the same factory?
I know the Baby Eagle, TZ-75 and EAA Witness have been made at the same plant in Tangfolio, Italy, but never heard of different brands of 1911s coming from the same production line.

I also would like more info on that.

armscor makes 1911's are branded as:

rock island armory
high standard
armscor
charles daly (formerly)

probably others as well

they are also making clones of the tanfoglio copy of the cz-75

 

[michael t]

METROARMS in philipines makes the
American ClassicII and the Firestorm These are the same pistol just different roll mark

 

[varoadking]

I stayed at the range shooting Bully (my name for the pistol).

Oh, I get it...like Taurus the bull...

You will pay more for a name like Kimber, or Wilson, or so on... There are alot out there that come off of the same manuf. line.... but you will find different names on them and about a $300-400 difference in the exact same firearm.

Do tell...

 

[NGIB]

Quote:
Different brands of 1911 from the same factory?
I know the Baby Eagle, TZ-75 and EAA Witness have been made at the same plant in Tangfolio, Italy, but never heard of different brands of 1911s coming from the same production line.

I also would like more info on that.


armscor makes 1911's are branded as:

rock island armory
high standard
armscor
charles daly (formerly)

probably others as well

they are also making clones of the tanfoglio copy of the cz-75

And these 1911s you mention all sell for around the same price. A little different is the STI Spartan uses an Armscor frame but an STI top end.

I'd really like to know where this "magic" 1911 plant is that makes guns with that wide price range. I suspect the OP of this "truth" is thinking about the Taurus being Brazilian made and Springer having their parts forged by Imbel in Brazil. Not the same plant and not the same gun at all.

As far as the difference between a $1K gun and a $2K gun - for an OK shooter like me it's not much. T'was I younger with better vision I'd probably appreciate the top-end guns more but my "middle-class" 1911s are great for me...

 

[Steeler Fan]

It's a Taurus PT1911 and is without a doubt the best 1911 I ever shoot.

ROTFLMAO.

Only if it is the only 1911 you will ever shoot!

 

[natpro7420]

I like 1911's above the others because they fit my hand just right and point of aim is like pointing my finger the angles are just there. No one has mentioned Colt, the few that I have my not have as many features for the money as some 1911's, the sharp edges and fit and finish may not be the focus of the selling point but I will say this they are accurate (which is where it counts) and there is something for the quality of materials when a barrel wipes clean with a rag versus my others that are scrubbed with a brush until my arm is sore and they are semi-expensive pieces as well. If you do decide to look into 1911's another thing to think about is that Colt's retain their value above everything else in that range pretty much. Just my $.02, that said I would love to try a Brown, Wilson, Nighthawk, and Baer.

I also must add that for the top quality of production guns for fit finish and best overall quality my vote goes to the current Dan Wessons. They hold their value extremely well also especially while the demand is greater than the supply. 1911's are like potato chips once you get started you can't settle for just one.

 

[Big Ugly Tall Texan]

I'm by this stuff like I am watches

I don't buy handguns or watches for status symbols.

I have a 25 buck Timex I have owned for more than 10 years. It is kinda plain looking but it keeps time as well as a $25,000 Rolex.

With firearms, I pick the cheapest one that will allow me to hit the target I want to hit and is reliable. My semi-auto handgun choice, a Taurus PT1911, so far has done that... IN SPADES!!! for less than $600.

I bought the watch to tell time and the pistol to shoot.

 

[ReNtaPiG]

$1200 for my Kimber and i'm sure the $200 is the Crimson Trace grip...and I must say I would spend it all over again for the same quality piece!!!

BUT $2000+ is too much when there are ALOT of QUALITY choices for half that (ie. Kimber or even a S&W)

 

[EdSky]

The first time I racked a Nighthawk Custom I had to buy it. It was like night and day compared to my Springfields, and I thought they were good. The Nighthawk is an excellent pistol, as is the Wilson Combat and the others. Don't knock them if you haven't handled one.

The Taurus is just a gateway pistol. "Here, Johnny, the first one is free!" Next thing you know, you're plopping down 2500 for a custom marvel.

 

[Frank Ettin]

There will always be discussion of whether high end guns are worth it. I've been able to acquire a number of very fine guns. I really like them. My Les Baers, Ed Brown and Nighthawks are beautifully put together. I admire their fit and finish. They are accurate and reliable. I think that the guns at that level are just "nicer." I appreciate the quality I see in them.

IMHO such pistols reflect a greater level of craftsmanship and attention, but whether the incremental increase in quality reflects a similar level of performance, or can fully justify the higher price, will always be a matter of debate. They cost what they cost. Whether that something extra in these pistols is worth the additional cost is something you have to decide for yourself. I'm not sure that I can necessarily argue objectively or scientifically that it is. But it is worth it to me.

Does one need such a gun for recreation or to protect himself and his family? The answer is, no. There are many guns made, including Colts, Springfields, guns made by Armscor, etc., for less money that will give excellent service and would fully be up to pretty much all tasks short of very serious competition, such as Bullseye or PPC, at the top levels. 


But if one appreciates high end pistols (or rifles or shotguns) and is lucky enough to have the means to satisfy his business and familial responsibilities and also indulge his tastes, there's no reason he should not. One may not need a top end 1911 (or Mercedes or Rolex or Perazzi), but nonetheless they are wonderful machines, can perform their functions well and are satisfying to use.



But candidly, as nice as it is to have a really nice gun, I think it's even nicer to shoot well. I'd always choose a good gun at a price that allowed me to buy ammunition and shoot it a lot, and maybe get some professional training, over spending my entire shooting budget on a top end gun. 


 

[HorseSoldier]

The 1911 is by far the most simple and best firearm in history.

Nowhere near the simplest firearm in history, which is part of the reason why they cost more for the same quality point than, say, a Glock.

You don't have to spend $2000+ to get a very good 1911.

The quality difference between a $300 1911 and a $1000 1911 is far greater than the quality difference between a $1000 1911 and a $2000 1911.

I didn't have problem child Kimbers and was pretty happy with their performance, but my Wilson is a significant step up in performance.

BUT $2000+ is too much when there are ALOT of QUALITY choices for half that (ie. Kimber or even a S&W)

I got my Wilson for a duty pistol -- I'm pretty happy to spend the extra $$$, even if its for a decreasing increase in quality, on a gun I'm betting my life on.

 

[vranasaurus]

If your kimbers weren't giving you problems then how exactly does your wilson perform better.

If the gun goes bang everytime you pull the trigger and reliably cycles what else is there WRT performance?

 

[txstang84]

Why, exactly, are 1911s so expensive? I've shot two of my buddy's Kimbers, and while they shot great, I don't understand why they cost so much. I'm not trying to come across as ignorant, I'm just uneducated. I see a lot that they are used as target pistols in competitions. Is it the craftsmanship/labor put into them? I'm not currently in the market for one, but I wouldn't mind picking one up some day. There just seems to be a great deal of sticker shock that comes along with them for me.

Way to go sean, you've stirred up the hornet's nest again.

First off, depending on which Kimber you decide to get, they aren't that pricey...a brand-spankin' new Pro Carry II is less than $800...for comparison sake, that's less than a new Sig P220...please folks-no comparisons on the make of pistols other than price point.

Their top end (read: expensive) guns nearly eclipse $2000-for that much, I'd rather have a Wilson, or EB. DWs can be had for just a shade less than $1000, and they are fantastic quality 1911s. RIA, Metro Arms, SAM, and the like are inexpensive and regarded by many as perfectly reliable, and infinitely upgradeable to whatever standard YOU want. I Personally wouldn't mind having a PT1911 as I have other Taurus products...for $500-$600 they have tons of options that I'd personally want. YMMV...

BUT

No one in here can tell you what you'll like other than suggestions. If you want a no frills 1911, the RIA, STI, Metro Arms and Firestorm seem to have a decent reputation-and they're cheap as far as pistols-not just 1911s-go. I also wouldn't mind having a Legacy Sports Citadel to put up next to my Kimber Pro Carry.

What you can afford will always play a part in what you get. I'd love to have a Wilson, or EB, but for my purposes, a Kimber will be more than adequate-provided that it functions well-if not, it'll be a memory and I'll revert to carrying my Glock 23.

just my .02

 

[auto45]

IMO, one of the big differences between the "better" 1911's and the "cheaper" ones can be in the higher round count usage.

Higher quality parts and "hand-fitting" can/should provide a more reliable and durable handgun, at least for the 1911 design. You can have high quality MIM and cast parts also, so everything doesn't have to be "forged" from the highest quality steel known to mankind.

So, a good test would be 20,000 rounds+ through a RIA and a Baer.
Forget the differences in accuracy, trigger pull, looks, etc. Shoot pie plates at 10 yards. I'd make a large bet which one will have much greater reliability and durability.

How much is that worth and can you get that quality at cheaper prices is the really the question...IMO again.

 

[jeffatus]

I just purchased my first 1911 yesterday, so I am certainly not the authority on them, but I did a bit of research and found that the difference between a $600 1911 and the $900+ Springfield Operator is simple: Ambi safety, stainless barrel, nicer wood grips, Tritium sights, better trigger, what seemed like a better fit and finish (I am hesitant to say this since my frame of reference is limited with the 1911's), skeleton hammer, lighter frame, and the "tail" on the gun was rounded and nicer. When someone showed me the $1500 to $2000+ guns, they were made of nicer materials, had a even better trigger, and I am sure they shot a little straighter. Was that worth the extra $1k to me? Not at this time. But if I had the money and it would make me smile every day when I opened up my safe or if it made my manhood feel bigger when I went to the range, then maybe it would be worth it.

I would recommend just doing your research and looking at them at a store who is willing to help you out. It was easy for me to go down my list of "needs": ambi safety, Tritium sights, smoother "tail" and then I added some value for "wants": nicer grips, skeleton hammer. Once I found the Operator on sale for $800, it was an easy choice.

 

[Beauhooligan]

Quote: Skydiver3346
<snip>
Yeah, right. You must know something I don't know, as I just purchased another Wilson Combat CQB .45 auto and it cost me over $2,200. The quality and workmanship, plus unbelievable accuracy and dependability is what you are paying for. No way you can get all that from a cheap 1911. Oh, you may get one to shoot for a low price but that is about all you are getting for your money. No offense, but there is a huge difference in a knock off 1911 and a top quality 1911 like Wilson, Brown, etc. Ask anybody who owns one, (if they would trade it for a Taurus, etc)? [end quote]

I agree with Skydiver, I also have a Wilson Combat (CQB TAC Light Rail .45) as my 1911 of choice as it is simply the most accurate and reliable 1911 I have ever used (though I have fired Brown and Les Baer 1911s that are about equal). If I was to go back in harness again I wouldn't consider trusting my life to anything less. And that's exactly where it rests. If you were going out tonight with a badge on, knowing that one malfunction of your duty weapon would leave your wife a widow, and kids orphans, does $2,775 really seem to be that much money? Heck, my vest cost half that of the Wilson! Add the amount of money I've spent on training and ammunition to keep my skills up and I've met the cost of the Wilson. It's all a matter of what you value most, and with the premium pistol I know that the chances it will fail me in a crisis moment are so slim they might as well be none. Ego and "manhood" have nothing to do with it. And yes, I have seen some inexpensive 1911s that are amazing, my Springfield Armory GI .45 would be an excellent example. It's accurate and never has had a failure to feed or eject; but I'll point out that the GI .45 has never been fired with anything but Wilson 47C magazines.

 

[shoop66]

@Christian James: Yeah, a 1K Kimber or Springfield is NOTHING compared to a Wilson or Les Baer. I've seen The full custom 1911's as much as 4K in the Shooting Times Gun Guide 2009. There's probably even more expensive ones than that. You get what you pay for.

 

[Chui]

There is probably little reason to go above $1600 for a 1911 though I'd love to have some of the more expensive ones.

The Springfield Armory TRP is probably the best price point 1911 on the market and I'd snarf one up in a heartbeat. Again. For the third time.

 

[Christian James]

@Christian James: Yeah, a 1K Kimber or Springfield is NOTHING compared to a Wilson or Les Baer.

My first 1911 was a Kimber Custom II. I now own a Les Baer Concept II and a Springfield Custom Carry. Are the Baer and Springfield Custom better than the Kimber? Without a doubt. But you'll never get me to agree that the Kimber is NOTHING compared to those two pistols.

Baers, Browns, Wilsons, Nighthawks, Springfield Customs, and full-house builds are better than the Kimbers, Colts, S&Ws and standard Springfields. They should be better as they cost significantly more money. The custom and semi-custom 1911s use better parts, are more accurate, more reliable, and durable. That's what you pay for. But to say that a Kimber or Springfield is NOTHING is going too far.