Texas to Defy the World Court of International Justice this Week

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LanceOregon

Moderator
Texas appears to be adamant about going forward with the executions of convicted murders who are Mexican Nationals. This is despite the fact that the World Court has ruled that the rights of these Mexican defendants under the Vienna Convention have been violated, and that they deserve new trials. In addition, massive Anti-USA protests are feared in Mexico this week, if the first execution is carried out this Thursday as planned.

In response, a spokesperson for the Texas Attorney Generals Office said this:

"The law is clear: Texas is bound not by the World Court, but by the U.S. Supreme Court, which reviewed this matter and determined that this convicted murderer's execution shall proceed."

The first Mexican scheduled for death this Thursday is Jose Medellin. Jose was only a 17 yr old minor when as part of criminal street gang, in participated in the gang rape of two young Houston girls: Elizabeth Pena, 16, and Jennifer Ertman, 14.

The young Mexican males were all drunk from drinking beer at the time. Witnesses said that the gang rapes of the two girls lasted for over an hour. Once the rapes ended, the gang then viciously beat both young girls to death with numerous punches and kicks to their bodies. One defendant also took out a small knife, and slashed both girls multiple times. Crime scene photos of the bodies of the girls shown at the trials of the defendants were said to have been absolutely horrific in nature.

The young men who participated in these acts were all given the death sentence. It was felt that the extremely depraved and violent nature of the murders helped convince the juries to evoke the death penalty.

Should Texas defy the World Court of Justice? After all, the United States has signed the Vienna Treaty that the World Court invoked. Even President Bush argued to give all of these men new trials, saying that the USA had to honor such treaties and obey international law. But the President and his administration lost when the United States Supreme Court ruled on this matter, and found that under the United States Constitution, the state of Texas was not bound by the World Court.

Here are some news stories about this:

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5gpkdpV0pGSS_ozv30DC1F1QkVd5wD92B0K180

http://www.reuters.com/article/domesticNews/idUSN0148487820080803?pageNumber=2&virtualBrandChannel=0


Here is a recent photo of this convicted killer:

ALeqM5jJFWHbHVOqSUmNo1tl-U0_pCVvEw


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LanceOregon

Moderator
But will this not cause the USA to lose respect from the International community, if we do not honor a treaty that we have signed?

The Mexican government has already officially protested this matter to the Bush Administration. What should President Bush tell all of these outraged Mexican officials??

They are most upset with us for claiming that the United States Constitution can overrule international law.

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Unregistered

Moderator
I would prefer we not violate the Vienna treaty as it might put Americans traveling abroad in jeopardy. I don't care if we lose respect, no one has any respect for us anyway anymore.

Why not just put him in a cell for a while with a very gay, very psychotic inmate who happens to have a shank, and let him enjoy the same fate as his victims?

If I was Bush I would be honest with the Mexicans, and say "sorry I have no jurisdiction in the matter". If the Supreme Court has decided, I would say that is final.
 

nate45

New member
What should President Bush tell all of these outraged Mexican officials??

That if they don't want their citizens to be subject to our laws, they should bring them all back to Mexico.
 

Keltyke

Moderator
You Go Texas!

Damn straight, kill the scum! As stated, Texas is not governed by the World Court. Rights? Rights, hell! What rights did those bastards give their victims? Hey, give me plane fare down there and I'll gladly pull the switch myself.
 

fisherman66

New member
Bush shouldn't tell them anything. It's not his business, it's a state affair. Perry should tell them to build their own fence.
 

xrocket

New member
Two messages come to...

... mind here.

What happens in Texas stays in Texas (all respect to Vegas) and Don't mess with Texas (original to Texas).

We Texans are quite adapt at taking care of our own messes and really don't require any Federal intervention in a State's matter. That's the way the United States of America was constitutionally setup.
 

44 AMP

Staff
I wonder what the World Court found wrong....

With their trial. Apparently our Supreme Court, and the state of Texas was ok with it, so what is it that the World Court is objecting to? The fact that they got the death penalty? Or some procedural flaw in the trial (in the World Court's eyes) so that they should get a new trial? I am just curious.

Personally, and especially given the nature of the crime, I think they ought to pay the price for what they did. They were in the US when they did it, were tried in a US court, (we will assume until proven otherwise) that they got the same treatment and appeals opportunities as any US citizen. They got convicted, and Texas even went to the Supreme Court to ensure that they were within their authority, (and the Supremes said yes, they are), so they should face the penalty.

Mexico is protesting? What would they do to these men if the crime had happened on Mexican soil? Would they get death? Or life in a Mexican jail? Or a sentance less than life?

I know it isn't realistic, but cases like this one make me wish for a return to an earlier era's concept of justice. Like giving the perpetrators to the families of the victims for .....counciling.
 

Unregistered

Moderator
so what is it that the World Court is objecting to? The fact that they got the death penalty? Or some procedural flaw in the trial (in the World
Court's eyes) so that they should get a new trial? I am just curious.

They were not given access to the Mexican consulate. It is basically a procedural flaw.
 

hoytinak

New member
What should President Bush tell all of these outraged Mexican officials??

If you don't wanna abide by our laws....GO HOME!

In the words of Ron White, "If you kill someone (which I think what these guys did was MUCH worse than just murder) in Texas...we will kill you back." :D
 

YankeeRebel

New member
44 AMP,

If I am correct, Mexico does not have a death penalty. They would received a life sentence there for what they did. From what I understand a Mexican prison is not a nice place to be. Should a person that comitts a capital crime here escape to Mexico, they demand that the highest penalty they would face is life in prison before they will extradit them back to the U.S.
 
The World Court is ignoring the fact that these defendants weren't afforded Counsular Access because they initially denied being Mexican Nationals.

In reality, The World Court decision is based on opposition to the death penalty and not much else.

Hats off to Texas for proceeding with the executions.
 
Texas is not defying anything. They are simply choosing to not abide by the World Courts suggestion. The World Court can issue all the "orders" it likes but it has no real authority over the American legal system. Therefore, anything they want to say is merely a suggestion as far as I am concerned.
 

S832

New member
Honestly I think the punishment should fit the crime, this case I don't have a stance on BUT a while back a woman got life in prison in Indonesia for bringing in drugs, their is a instance where IMO the international authority should over-rule the sentence.
 

thallub

New member
Wow! The World Court; I am impressed. Let them send their marshalls to TX to enforce their silly a$$ed ruling.
 

Keltyke

Moderator
They were not given access to the Mexican consulate. It is basically a procedural flaw.

The Consulate can exercise political pressure on the behalf of Mexican citizens in this country legally. However, that's it! All they can really do is see that the accused rights, ACCORDING TO THE LAWS OF THE ARRESTING COUNTRY, are not violated. Watch "Midnight Express" sometime.
 

azsixshooter

New member
We never should have signed any kind of International Treaty that purports to EVER supersede American law. I hope we never follow any of their "suggestions" and as another poster said if Mexico doesn't want her citizens subjected to our punishments she can gladly have them ALL back.
 

Yithian

New member
They came to our country and commited a crime.
They pay the price we determine.
We don't dictate their policies and laws, they can't touch ours.
Nuff said.
 
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