Tell us again why Boy Scouts should allow gay leaders

[scud]

Jack M.

OK , I'm a white guy so why can't I benefit from the united negro college fund or affirmative action or the many other minority .gov subsidized programs ? So how is it these discrimitory practices are OK with my tax dollars because they don't descriminate against against anyone but white guys ( just a example ) ? Another point is that there is no relation between being black and being homosexual.

 

[Jack M]

If the University of Texas told you that they did not accept White guys, you would be annoyed, right? There are rules that UT has to follow, being a state school and all. Look, I am not telling anyone they have to accept anyone, just saying that if you take the man's money, you should follow the man's rules. Also, isn't the United Negro College Fund a privately funded organization? Don't know for sure, though.

 

[scud]

Jack M:

I understand where you're coming from and all and I don't agree w/ discrimination based on race or anything like that. I just see homosexuality as more of a lifestyle choice like using drugs or something and therefore, as a choice, becomes subject to the choice of others as to or not to accept it. As far as discrimination goes, black or white we're all already the new discriminated against minority, we're the evil RKBA group so I guess I'm already used to it.

 

[Ed Brunner]

Scud; I agree with your evaluation of choices.

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You have to be there when it's all over. Otherwise you can't say "I told you so."

Better days to be,

Ed

 

[JerryM]

It is particularly offensive to compare homosexuality to being a member of a particular race. There is no sin or wrong in being a member of any race. However, there is a sin in homosexuality. No amount of liberal rhetoric can change that. Homosexuality is a perverse lifestyle and desire. God has said it and that settles it. It is a perverse and abominable behavior.
EnochGale, I would be interested to know if you would have any objection to having a male scoutmaster in charge of your daughter's Girl Scout troop. How about him taking the girls on a camping trip? A major factor in the protection of our children is to prevent those who might prey on them from having access to them. Lack of opportunity prevents many crimes and sins that might otherwise be committed. I noticed that you used the word homophobia. The definition of that is: "irrational fear of, aversion to, or discrimination against homosexuality or homosexuals." I do not have an irrational fear, but I do discriminate. I discriminate against adulterers, thieves, liars, drunkards, wife beaters, gang members, drug users, and many others in addition to homosexuals. I don't have any friends that are guilty of those things and if I learned that some did we would sever friendship until they had repented and changed. The Boy Scouts are right in their position, and I applaud them and will increase my support if necessary. I will stop support of any organization or company that stops their support of the Boy Scouts.




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Ecclesiastes 12:13  ¶Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.
14  For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

 

[EnochGale]

JerryM:

There is no rational reason to regard homosexuality as a problem to society except for bigotry based on Scripture. If you want to play this game, you have to take it.

Our nation should not be ruled by your religious based biases.

In times past, noble preachers of the word of
God ranted on how the races shouldn't mix.
Do you agree with that?

I regard your comment in line with their logic.

As far as male girl scout leaders, do you oppose male school teachers that deal with girls?

Much more heterosexual molestation that homosexual. That is continually ignored in this debate as it doesn't support your ill-logic.

It comes down to an irrational hatred of a group that does no more harm to others than most other defineable groups. You don't have to be gay. Stop worrying about other people's sexuality. In fact, stewing on it, without real evidence of a problem says more about the haters than the hated.

And so dear moderators - once again, somebody posts an anti-"some group topic" and the argument degenerates to pure hatred.

 

[Jack M]

scud, you said "As far as discrimination goes, black or white we're all already the new discriminated against minority, we're the evil RKBA group so I guess I'm already used to it."

I agree %100,

and actually, I see your side of the issue, I just have a sore spot when it comes to private groups (not the scouts in particular) taking government money, then claiming the govt. has no say over them.

 

[JerryM]

EnochGale,
Regarding your statement that "in times past, noble preachers of the word of God ranted on how the races shouldn't mix. Do you agree with that?" NO, I don't agree with that and there is not a passage in the Bible that establishes that. But there are clear passages that establish that homosexuality is an abomination before God and is a sin. The Bible is the ultimate authority. I don't try to make it say what I might wish it to say, but instead try to obey what it does say.
You didn't answer my question as to whether you would want men scoutmasters to be in charge of your daughter's Girl Scout troop. You asked a question: "As far as male girl scout leaders, do you oppose male school teachers that deal with girls?" My answer is that it depends upon the type of "dealing." I wouldn't want a male gym coach of the girls, and I sure wouldn't want a male scoutmaster for a Girl Scout troop, would you? "Much more heterosexual molestation that homosexual. That is continually ignored in this debate as it doesn't support your ill-logic." That isn't relevant to the debate. We don't put male scoutmasters with Girl Scout troops for good reason, although you haven't said whether you would or not.
My position is neither irrational nor hatred. It is a recognition of the perverseness of sin including homosexuality and the agenda of the homosexuals and liberals to have their sin pronounced as normal, not their fault, acceptable, and even given special protection and rights. I am opposed to that position. I am also opposed to live in partners whether homosexual or heterosexual and the attempt to make their sinful lifestyle legitimate.
I desire to see my nation turn back to the God given principles which made us a great nation. I might add that most of the hatred I see is a hatred of God by those who object to His commands and precepts. Biblical love, agape, demands that we point out sin so that sinners have the opportunity to repent. God has pointed them out and we are to give that message to the world. Thanks for bringing this up so I could clarify some things. Jerry

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Ecclesiastes 12:13  ¶Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.
14  For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

[This message has been edited by JerryM (edited August 31, 2000).]

 

[FUD]

Gotta agree with JerryM on this one. As a parent, I have the ultimate responsibility to decide what moral direction I want my child to be exposed to. Properly setting the moral direction of a child early in life will ensure them being on the right track in adulthood.

To say that the moral values outlined in the Bible is outdated is just plain ignorant. The Bible, as a moral guideline, is as valid today as it was a 100 years ago, a 1000 years ago, etc.

Loosely taken from this Sunday's readings "... as for me and my house [family], we will follow the ways of the Lord ..." ( or at least try to, to the best of our ability).

 

[EnochGale]

Agree to disagree on this. I say flatly this attitude is irrational and bigoted. I will always say it when one of these posts occur.

The use of Scripture to advance prejudice is
medieval as there is no basis for the discrimination against gays.

So why do you guys keep posting, this crap.
Try to find the Biblical Hate Gays forum and have a good time.

 

[FUD]

EnochGale, Actually scripture has a lot of basis for discrimination against gay acts but we've been around this topic a few times before so I won't bother posting them again. As to why these topics come up, I don't know and I agree with you that threads which don't unite us, only serve to divide us. FUD.

 

[Zach Vonler]

"Juarez blames BSA for the abuse he suffered and claims that if he had received the training he would have known how to recognize the problem and resist the approaches of Paz."

My god that pisses me off. The real people that this kid should blame is his parents. If it's so obvious to everyone (so saith the Supreme Court) that the BSA attracts pedophiles, why didn't the parents take that into account? When I got into scouting, my father immediately became involved in the troop, going on all the campouts, even eventually becoming Scoutmaster. I didn't know at the time, but found out a few years later that he did so because he wanted to make sure none of the other leaders were predators. I think parents have it way wrong when they simply drop off their kids to any organization like the BSA and hope for the best. They should get involved, not only because they can then protect their child, but because it enriches the troop greatly when the parents go on campouts, attend meetings, etc.

 

[Jordan]

I have held off posting on this as I've been looking for a web site that was up as recently as 2 weeks ago.

It was called www.boy-love.com or somesuch... anyway can't find it now.

It was packed full of essays justifying a mans lust for pre-pubescent boys and attempting to legitimize this as another "alternative lifestyle".

Among the essays was one addressing the desire of boy-lovers to want to be involved with young boys and how a boy-lover could get active in the community, how to be friendly and reassuring to the parents in order to win their trust and, in turn, be granted more time with the kids etc... While never mentioning BSA per se, it did direct boy-loving readers towards acting as mentors in youth activities.

You don't think these predators WOULD NOT target BSA?!?

So you'll argue, "Well these aren't *gay* men.. they're pederasts"

I'll answer: What sexual orientation do you think they would call themselves if queried? "Boy-lover"? I doubt it. Better to be clumped in with a close, but more accepted title, "Gay".

Many parents (as seen here at TFL) don't seem to mind sending their kids off with "gay" men and these boy-lover's admitted strategy is to use mild deceit in being granted time around boys.

P.S.-- if you have more luck than I did finding this site... I'll warn you.. you WILL want to puke! It talked about how a young boy is best off to have his first sexual encounter with an understanding adult male, etc.... totally sick... but I guess that's just my "hatred" coming out.


[This message has been edited by Jordan (edited August 31, 2000).]

 

[Keiller TN]

When the moderators are away, the posters do play!

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"Unless the Lord builds the house, they labour in vain that build it:
except the Lord guards the city, the watchman stays awake in vain." (Psalm 127:1)


"Freedom is given to the human conditionally, in the assumption of his constant religious responsibility."
(Alexander Solzhenitzyn)

 

[Coinneach]

Oh, we're here...

 

[mrsMTN]

The link a few posts back appears to refer, not to a lifestyle choice, but to criminal activity. No correlation there.
This doesn't look like it's going anywhere good. It seems when the pulpits appear, things get uglier. Why on earth is that? And, yes, men of the cloth, in the past, HAVE used biblical quotes to support segregation. Perhaps they were not interpreted as intended (but then how can one tell?), but they were indeed used.
Time to move on, perhaps?

 

[John/az2]

It never ceases to amaze me how many people will just brush off thousands of years of recorded wisdom just because "there is no empirical data to support" blah, blah blah.

We see this with the gun grabbers, the land grabbers, the tramplers of freedoms, ignoring the lessons of history. Primarily because if they did accept the truth, well... they would have to CHANGE! And become personally responsible for what they do. (horror! )

But, that's how it is with every generation.

"The sexual revolution!"
"Make love not war!"
"It doesn't matter as long as you love each other, what you do!"
"Prove to me there is a God!"
"No one need an AK-47!"
"That can't happen here!"

Same song, slightly different lyrics.

And even then, some still don't get it.

Whether written by men claiming to speak on God's behalf, or written by men recording history, truth does not change. For if it did, it wouldn't be TRUTH, now WOULD it?!

But then again if someone accepts that statement, then they might have to change, too!

No wonder we have so many psychos running this country and making the news on a daily basis; we don't have a solid foundation to stand upon.

After all, "is" doesn't really mean what we thought it does anymore.

Sheesh!

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John/az
"When freedom is at stake, your silence is not golden, it's yellow..." RKBA!

See The Legacy of Gun Control film at: www.cphv.com

Do it for the children...

 

[TheBluesMan]

Sheesh! is right John. Absodamnlutely right!

Enough is enough, and this thread doesn't have room for another post without going over 100K, so it's closed.


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RKBA!
"The people have the right to bear arms for their defense and security"
Ohio Constitution, Article I, Section 4
Concealed Carry is illegal in Ohio.
Ohioans for Concealed Carry Website