Tell me about .35 Whelen cartridge

[mapsjanhere]

35 Wheelen is the American answer to the German 9.3 series (.366 caliber). There actually was an early 9.3x64 that has nearly identical dimensions with identical performance to the 35 Wheelen (not to be confused with the 9.3x64 Brenneke which is an elephant cartridge).

 

[old roper]

As far as I know there is only one 9x57 and it formed from the 30-06 case
and has 62.74gr H20 case capacity vs the 35 Whelen capacity @72.63gr H20. Case capacity for the 30-06 is 68gr H20


Caliber called 9x63mm uses the 30-06 case bullet dia .358 and has case capacity 70.31gr H20 which is little less than the 35 Whelen.

As mapsjanhere mentioned lot of the 9.3 they had the little more case capacity than the 35 Whelen also use larger dia bullet.

till the 35 Whelen became SAAMI appr 1988 it been a wildcat rd for over 60yrs been lot different versions of the 35 Whelen. I've got print of the 35 Whelen case from the 50's and it's off little bit but not much and I have reloading data also.

The 30-06 had a 16yr head start on the Whelen and for some unknown reason the guys that shoot hunt with like them same as the guys who hunt with the 30-06. I also think when you get pass 30 cal you really have to like
what your shoot.

I had a weak moment when I turned 65 about 5 yrs I decided need to get into the 35 cal got me a Rem Classic 35 Whelen unfired and got a custom . You heard this and than and you really never know till you own and shoot a rifle. The classic got about what I expect being a factory rifle and I could do 2800fps with 225gr Accubond with the custom using Nolser data. Last few years I've been shooting the 35 WhelenAI and I only use it on elk and if I get a bear tag this year I'll use the Whelen.

I still have my 30-06's

 

[FrankenMauser]

Arguing about which cartridge is "more powerful", is about as useful as comparing penis size.

The .35 Whelen was created by necking .30-03 cases up to .35 caliber (NOT .30-06, as most people claim). It was intended to be used as the American equivalent of .375 H&H, and could be chambered in standard length actions.

It is a cartridge that was designed to be capable of taking every animal in North America (and most African game), without costing an arm and a leg to shoot, and without requiring magnum length actions.

It is a FANTASTIC cartridge.

People that claim .338 Win Mag, 7mm Rem Mag, and similar cartridge are superior... just don't understand. They get the job done via very different methods.

If you think a .35 Whelen could be useful to you, go for it.
If you are still wondering... forget it.

 

[bobn]

jmr nailed it. kicks worse than 300mag. 700 rem or 7600 way too light for the cartridge.... but i am a wuss in the recoil department,,,,, bobn

 

[stu925]

I'd probably buy it just because it's not a 30-06. I like unusual cartridges, I don't want the same thing everyone else has. Nothing wrong with common calibers and there's a lot to be said for being able to walk into the LGS and buy 6 or 7 different types of ammo for your rifle. I just kind of like when people look at me and say "you've got a what?", it's even better if it's an odd ball rifle firing an uncommon cartridge.

Stu

 

[dummy]

If you not going to reload for it, i would look for a deal on a 06.

 

[gak]

Nice write up:
http://35whelen.blogspot.com/

 

[tahoe2]

I agree with stu925, I like some slightly off cartridges (.300 Savage, .375 Winchester, .280 Remington, .41 Mag, 7mm & 8mm mausers etc...)
the 35 Whelen is certainly an interesting cartridge, I've always been intrigued by the 9.3x62 (.366 bullets). But if you already handload, I say "why not" ?

 

[natman]

I have no experience with this caliber and I'm not sure what the cartridge was designed for. What exactly is the .35 Whelen's nich in the cartridge world?

Let me answer your question rather than try to "prove" something else is better.

The 35 Whelen is intended for larger game such as elk or moose. It's a bit much for deer, but it will drop them quickly with minimal meat damage.

If you have such game in mind and keep the distances reasonable it's a fine choice. If you want one rifle for everything, a 30-06 would probably be a more versatile choice.

 

[Nnobby45]

Let's start with the 30-06.

Neck it down a little and you have the .270 Winchester.

Neck it down more, and you have a .25-06.

Neck it up and you have a .35 Whalen

That's what James Howe did before he named the cartridge for the noted shooter Col. Townsend Whalen. Of course the rifle has to be re-chambered (the neck portion) and re-bored to take the cartridge, but running an expander thru 30-06 cases to enlarge the neck is easy for the handloader.

The 30-06 is a little underbored. That means the case could be a little bigger to improve efficiency and get more velocity, especially with larger weight bullets.

The .35 Whalen is also underbored, but still bridges the gap between the 30-06 and .375 H&H. One of the more sucessful wildcat cartridges of the 20th century. Considered adequate for all N. American big game.

It'll drive a 250 gr. bullet at 2200 fps. (from my Speer #14 manual) and put it clean thru hide, bone and vitals of the largest griz or brownie you'd run into. Speer's Trophy Bonded would be a good choice.

Gak's link gives a good history and description of this cartridge that's seen a lot of use in different parts of the world.

 

[Nnobby45]

If you not going to reload for it, i would look for a deal on a 06.

Yep. This is a handloaders cartridge, and was designed to take over where the 30-06 leaves off. Not for someone looking for a good all around deer rifle.

If you don't hunt America's largest game like Moose and Bear, then get the 30-06. And a .35 gr. 250 gr. bullet at 2200 fps or so, isn't for long range shooting. Nor is the 220 gr. at 2400fps. The bullets sectional densities are a poor choice for long range.

The 30-06's .30 caliber bullets have much better sectional density, in 150 to 180 gr. for reaching out there a ways. It's still a 30-06, so don't try to stretch things too far. And don't forget to become skilled enough to take advantage of a rifle's long range potential. 2 or 3 shooters out of a hundred are skilled enough for long range shots. The rest of us need to shoot within our abilities and not wound the poor critters. OK, lecture over.

* BULLET SELECTION 101:
Section Density is a bullet"s weight in relation to it's diameter. That, along with the shape of the nose, equal the ballistic coefficient. High sectional density (longer bullets) and spitzer type (pointed) noses equal less wind resistance and better aerodynamics for longer ranges.

 

[Elkins45]

From what I've read $625 is a very reasonable price for this rifle. I don't think many companies are chambering for 35 Whelen these days, so it's something an enthusiast would probably pay handsomely for if you ever decided to get rid of it.

I have a rebarreled Marlin in 35 Whelen that I use to shoot primarily cast bullets. There are lots of good choices in .358 bullet molds.

 

[FrankenMauser]

Let's start with the 30-06.

Neck it down a little and you have the .270 Winchester.

Neck it down more, and you have a .25-06.

Neck it up and you have a .35 Whalen

.270 Winchester, .280 Remington, and .35 Whelen are based on the longer .30-03 case, not .30-06.

.25-06 is one of very few cartridges in the ".30-06 family", that was actually based on the .30-06 case.

Under most circumstances, that difference is trivial. But, there are times when it really matters. For example: Shooting certain styles of cast lead bullets, or paper-patched bullets, with .30-06 brass formed to .270, .280, or .35 Whelen can result in significant fouling or bullet damage. The bullet needs the longer neck to protect it from damaging the bullet or paper patch.

If you need to form .270 Winchester, .280 Remington, or .35 Whelen brass from something else, it's best to pick something within the .30-03 family (with .280 Rem being preferred for both .270 and .35 W).

 

[huntinaz]

Arguing about which cartridge is "more powerful", is about as useful as comparing penis size.

So, it's totally useful then?

 

[mes227]

.270 Winchester, .280 Remington, and .35 Whelen are based on the longer .30-03 case, not .30-06.

.25-06 is one of very few cartridges in the ".30-06 family", that was actually based on the .30-06 case.

Under most circumstances, that difference is trivial. But, there are times when it really matters. For example: Shooting certain styles of cast lead bullets, or paper-patched bullets, with .30-06 brass formed to .270, .280, or .35 Whelen can result in significant fouling or bullet damage. The bullet needs the longer neck to protect it from damaging the bullet or paper patch.

If you need to form .270 Winchester, .280 Remington, or .35 Whelen brass from something else, it's best to pick something within the .30-03 family (with .280 Rem being preferred for both .270 and .35 W).

The 35 Whelen was developed in 1922 by Mr Howe at Springfield. He was working from the .400 Whelen which he and Mr. Whelen had just developed. Both From 30-06 brass. Thus, the .35 Whelen is part of the -06 family (and was even briefly called the .35-06).

 

[FrankenMauser]

The 35 Whelen was developed in 1922 by Mr Howe at Springfield. He was working from the .400 Whelen which he and Mr. Whelen had just developed. Both From 30-06 brass. Thus, the .35 Whelen is part of the -06 family (and was even briefly called the .35-06).

.35 Whelen shares the same case length as .30-03 (just like .270 Win and .280 Rem).

Now, get in touch with Fred Zeglin. He owns an original set of dies for the .400 Whelen. Those ORIGINAL dies have a case length appropriate for .30-03 cases; not .30-06.

 

[Nnobby45]

.270 Winchester, .280 Remington, and .35 Whelen are based on the longer .30-03 case, not .30-06.

I don't recall mentioning what the original case was based on.

Just said that if you neck down a 30-06 case you have a .270. Speer's #14 manual does say that-- "necking the 30-06 case down to .277 forms the new case"--referring to the .270.

Maximum case length for the .30-06 is 2.494. The max for .270 is 2.540 and a trimmed .270 case below max to 30-06 case neck lengthes is still a lot more case neck than necessary to hold the heaviest bullet weights that can be used in the .270.

Wikepedia also points out that the .270 originated from the 30-06 case.

However, thanks for pointing out the slight neck difference between the 30-'03 Springfield and the very slightly shortened case neck of the 30-06 to make a technical point even if it has no practical application for the proper functioning of the cartridge.

Max case length for the .35 Whalen is 2.494--same as the 30-06.

I guess what I'm saying is that a number of cases may have been made from '03 cases, but when the '06 replaced it, those same cartridges now had a new step dad, the 30-06, which now became the basis for the making of the .270, .35 Whalen and so on.

Personally, I'd say you make a valid point.

When the military scrapped the big 220 bullet, the longer case neck wasn't necessary---and IMO, wasn't to begin with. It was just a very slight modification of the rifle chamber and making the distinction may have been important if an attempt had been made to fire the longer necked '03 in the shorter necked chamber of the 30-06.

In that regard, I'd say you make a valid point. And going all the way back to the earliest history of a cartridge is always intersting for many of us.

 

[FrankenMauser]

I'm sorry. I wasn't clear with one of my earlier statements. The .35 Whelen and .30-06 share the same case length. But, you cannot achieve the .30-06 case length by forming .35 Whelen from '06. In order to achieve the standard 2.494-2.504" case length of .35 Whelen, you must start with a case of .30-03 length. (when you expand the neck to .35 caliber, it gets shorter)

However, thanks for pointing out the slight neck difference between the 30-'03 Springfield and the very slightly shortened case neck of the 30-06 to make a technical point even if it has no practical application for the proper functioning of the cartridge.

There are very important, practical applications for having the proper neck length. It may not effect most shooters, but it is very important to some people. I covered it in a previous post:

Under most circumstances, that difference is trivial. But, there are times when it really matters. For example: Shooting certain styles of cast lead bullets, or paper-patched bullets, with .30-06 brass formed to .270, .280, or .35 Whelen can result in significant fouling or bullet damage. The bullet needs the longer neck {of the .30-03} to protect it from damaging the bullet or paper patch.

The same applies to .270 Win and .280 Rem. You can create perfectly usable cases by forming from .30-06, but that doesn't change the fact that .30-03 is their proper parent cartridge; or that you do need that long neck when shooting certain types of loads.

Saying .30-06 is the parent cartridge for .270 Win, .280 Rem, .35 Whelen, and .400 Whelen, is like saying .303 British is the parent cartridge for .30-40 Krag. Sure, you can form a perfectly usable, short-necked .30-40 case from .303 Brit; but that doesn't make it the parent cartridge.


Side note:
Don't EVER believe the parent cartridges listed on Wikipedia. Most of the "knowledge" there is derived from the same sources as the "knowledge" on TFL: Gun writers that spew worthless dribble, and manage to turn it into "fact". Those "facts" are then cited on the Wikipedia pages, and lead to discussions like this one. And, of course, you also have complete idiots making changes.
Some examples: They currently have both .30-06 and .30-03 listed as the parent for .35 Whelen. They occasionally have 7x57mm listed as the parent for .308 Winchester (it was originally based on .300 Savage). Some one likes listing .22 LR as the parent of .22 WMR; and .22 WMR as the parent for 5mm Remington. And, .45-70 sometimes shows up as the parent cartridge for .30-06.

 

[Nnobby45]

The same applies to .270 Win and .280 Rem. You can create perfectly usable cases by forming from .30-06, but that doesn't change the fact that .30-03 is their proper parent cartridge

ORIGINAL parent cartridge, I agree. But the '03 disappeared and the new "parent" cartridge was it's replacement---the venerable 'ol .30-'06. Depending on how you trim your cases, I've seen larger differences in '06 neck length than the difference between '06 and '03.

Remember, the listed overall case lengths are the maximum. Not necessarily the "proper" lengths.

Admittedly, you are technically correct---nothing wrong with that. Not to pick on newbies trying to learn, but it's good to hear from 'ol timers who are knowledgeable and know their stuff.

 

[FrankenMauser]

ORIGINAL parent cartridge, I agree. But the '03 disappeared and the new "parent" cartridge was it's replacement---the venerable 'ol .30-'06. Depending on how you trim your cases, I've seen larger differences in '06 neck length than the difference between '06 and '03.

Interesting concept...

When my mother and father become obsolete (die), I get to choose one of their offspring as my new parents. That ought to be an awkward conversation.