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Tea party patriots co-founder arrested on gun charges at nyc airport
- Thread starter MTT TL
- Start date
secret_agent_man
Moderator
The NY law deprives the guy of a functional handgun for self defense. This is a no brainer after Heller, it will just take time. Unfortunately, it may be mostly his time that is taken up.
If this attorney is jailed, it raises an ugly question: is it unconstitutional incarceration under the Second Amendment?
If this attorney is jailed, it raises an ugly question: is it unconstitutional incarceration under the Second Amendment?
maestro pistolero
New member
If the average gun owner didn't know different, he might not think a permit would be needed to transport a locked, unloaded firearm. NY and NJ are something of an anomaly in that regard.Seems like some guy who thought his California permit would work in New York
In NY/NJ there is NO legal path whatsoever for out-of-state residents to even possess a firearm, which amounts to a ban for any non-resident. If properly challenged, I don't see how the law could pass any standard of scrutiny.
I have not seen where the man had intended to be a test case, it will be interesting to see how this goes.
§ 926A. INTERSTATE TRANSPORTATION OF FIREARMS
Notwithstanding any other provision of any law or any rule or regulation of a State or any political subdivision thereof, any person who is not otherwise prohibited by this chapter from transporting, shipping, or receiving a firearm shall be entitled to transport a firearm for any lawful purpose from any place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm to any other place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm if, during such transportation the firearm is unloaded, and neither the firearm nor any ammunition being transported is readily accessible or is directly accessible from the passenger compartment of such transporting vehicle: Provided, That in the case of a vehicle without a compartment separate from the driver’s compartment the firearm or ammunition shall be contained in a locked container other than the glove compartment or console.
Is there any way to interpret this as applying to entering the state w/ the intent of passing through it to another state via transfer to a common carrier (e.g., a commercial aircraft)?
.
Notwithstanding any other provision of any law or any rule or regulation of a State or any political subdivision thereof, any person who is not otherwise prohibited by this chapter from transporting, shipping, or receiving a firearm shall be entitled to transport a firearm for any lawful purpose from any place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm to any other place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm if, during such transportation the firearm is unloaded, and neither the firearm nor any ammunition being transported is readily accessible or is directly accessible from the passenger compartment of such transporting vehicle: Provided, That in the case of a vehicle without a compartment separate from the driver’s compartment the firearm or ammunition shall be contained in a locked container other than the glove compartment or console.
Is there any way to interpret this as applying to entering the state w/ the intent of passing through it to another state via transfer to a common carrier (e.g., a commercial aircraft)?
.
Sounds like he stayed in NYC for two days. That will present a problem to his defense. FOPA does not cover that. There is discussion whether FOPA covers stopping at a gas station and eating as well. If this man did this on purpose, oh my, I think he will see jail time out of this and be forgotten from the front page all to soon.
Aguila Blanca
Staff
Moron.
This guy is supposed to be a lawyer and he thinks going TO New York City and staying there for two or three days is "in temporary transit through"?
Words fail me.
No, I do not agree with New York's gun laws, but as of now they ARE the law and we ignore them at our peril. What I want to know is why this guy is out walking the streets when the gentleman who was arrested at Newark Airport awhile back (Greg Revell) when he WAS legitimately "in transit" spent three days in the cooler and very nearly did hard time. I guess it helps to be a media celebrity.
This guy is supposed to be a lawyer and he thinks going TO New York City and staying there for two or three days is "in temporary transit through"?
Words fail me.
No, I do not agree with New York's gun laws, but as of now they ARE the law and we ignore them at our peril. What I want to know is why this guy is out walking the streets when the gentleman who was arrested at Newark Airport awhile back (Greg Revell) when he WAS legitimately "in transit" spent three days in the cooler and very nearly did hard time. I guess it helps to be a media celebrity.
Aguila Blanca
Staff
He had been IN New York for several days. That means his point of origin was New York. And he wasn't legal to possess the handgun in New York. Ergo, the FOPA does not apply in this case, because it rests on the prerequisite that possession is legal at the place where the journey starts and in the place where the journey ends.Jim March said:This is all speculation until we know his point of origin. It seems VERY likely to me this is another FOPA violation on NY's part. It's happened before and it'll keep happening until the 2A is really fixed in NY and NYC generally.
I don't see this case as being the same as Revell's at all. Greg Revell really WAS "in transit." The only reason he spent the night in an airport hotel was a missed connection.
maestro pistolero
New member
If he had been in compliance with FOPA there would be a defense and therefore would be no standing to challenge the law, if that is his intent. The law, in my opinion is facially unconstitutional as it is a complete ban for any non-residents.
I hope this case is otherwise without negative coloration and that he pursues injunctive relief. On the other hand, the SCOTUS has not appeared anxious to address the scope of the 2A through the litigation of criminal cases, so the scope may need to be tackled on the civil front.
I hope this case is otherwise without negative coloration and that he pursues injunctive relief. On the other hand, the SCOTUS has not appeared anxious to address the scope of the 2A through the litigation of criminal cases, so the scope may need to be tackled on the civil front.
Glenn E. Meyer
New member
I would caution members that posting that a certain state should be ...
will caused you to be ...
Many members of TFL may reside in a state with bad gun laws and fight for the RKBA. You might think you are demonstrating your great wit - but you are not.
GEM
will caused you to be ...
Many members of TFL may reside in a state with bad gun laws and fight for the RKBA. You might think you are demonstrating your great wit - but you are not.
GEM
he man in question stayed in NYC for two days and then went back to the airport.
Where are you getting this? That wasn't in the linked story or another story I saw.Sounds like he stayed in NYC for two days.
Looks like it was longer than two days. Not sure what source I saw stating two days. But he in fact, was there longer than two days according to a couple of news accounts:
Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1211/70548.html#ixzz1gleet1YHA prominent tea party leader was charged with a felony Thursday after he took a gun to New York City’s LaGuardia Airport and it was discovered during a pre-flight check-in.
Mark Meckler, co-founder of the conservative Tea Party Patriots group, was arrested after he tried to check in for a Delta airlines flight with a locked box containing a Glock pistol and 19 units of 9mm ammunition, according to a release from the Queens District Attorney’s office.
Meckler, who had been in New York since Sunday, allegedly told authorities that he carries the gun because he gets threats.
From the NYC DA's office press release:
http://www.queensda.org/newpressreleases/2011/december/meckler_12_14_2011_arr_update.pdf
FOPA does not cover an extended stay in NYC since he was not traveling from the 11th to the 15th. I truly believe that this man is in serious trouble and will be lucky to avoid jail time and even more lucky to keep his right to practice law anywhere in this nation. If he did this on purpose, wow, really a dumb move in my opinion.
District Attorney Brown said that, according to the charges, Meckler presented a locked gun box to a Delta Airlines ticket agent at approximately 5:20 a.m. this morning, December 15, 2011, during check-in. It is alleged that the box contained a Glock 27 pistol and nineteen 9mm cartridges. Meckler, who has been in New York since Sunday, December 11, 2011, allegedly told authorities that he had the pistol because he gets threats and that he does not have a New York State carry permit.
http://www.queensda.org/newpressreleases/2011/december/meckler_12_14_2011_arr_update.pdf
FOPA does not cover an extended stay in NYC since he was not traveling from the 11th to the 15th. I truly believe that this man is in serious trouble and will be lucky to avoid jail time and even more lucky to keep his right to practice law anywhere in this nation. If he did this on purpose, wow, really a dumb move in my opinion.
I think he'd have a hard time using FOPA as a defense.
The two possibilities I see are that he's fishing for a lawsuit, or he's just foolish. Neither bodes well.
As far as a lawsuit, it's highly unlikely he'd prevail, since he was committing a (in that locale) criminal act. I really hope he doesn't expect the SAF or NRA to come running to his defense: they're busy trying to bring good lawsuits that actually have a chance of winning.
The two possibilities I see are that he's fishing for a lawsuit, or he's just foolish. Neither bodes well.
As far as a lawsuit, it's highly unlikely he'd prevail, since he was committing a (in that locale) criminal act. I really hope he doesn't expect the SAF or NRA to come running to his defense: they're busy trying to bring good lawsuits that actually have a chance of winning.
The man has a law degree which makes him an officer of the courts. He will be held to a higher standard because of that as well as his political positions on the 2A. Very sad to see this case. He of all people should have known much better than this.
It will not turn out well for him or his political movement. It is a reminder of the disparity between the different states and how they interpret/deny the 2A. I was also unaware of just how dangerous MA is as well despite all of my reading on CCW in different states. I was unaware of the serious punishment for simple possession. Man, just stay away from the New England area, it is a real quagmire.
It will not turn out well for him or his political movement. It is a reminder of the disparity between the different states and how they interpret/deny the 2A. I was also unaware of just how dangerous MA is as well despite all of my reading on CCW in different states. I was unaware of the serious punishment for simple possession. Man, just stay away from the New England area, it is a real quagmire.
secret_agent_man
Moderator
The law, in my opinion is facially unconstitutional as it is a complete ban for any non-residents.
That, and he was not arrested during a stay-over in NY.
He was apprehended at an airport in the act of traveling.
FOPA applies here.
If anybody thinks this is not an intentional set up for a fall of the judicial system, let me interest you in a tunnel between New Jersey and Manhattan originally owned by Abraham Lincoln.
Glenn E. Meyer
New member
They made him stay in state for several days in violation of the law?
Granted we oppose the NY laws, but if you disobey such - that's your problem unless you want to make a statement.
Granted we oppose the NY laws, but if you disobey such - that's your problem unless you want to make a statement.
secret_agent_man
Moderator
They made him stay in state for several days in violation of the law?
Can the prosecutor prove possession of the gun while laid over? Not if this guy is any kind of an attorney. All they have is the guy had a gun that was locked in a case sans ammo at the airport while traveling. All legal under FOID.
Aguila Blanca
Staff
A fundamental prerequisite of the FOPA is that possession (or "carry") of the firearm must be legal in the place where the journey begins and the place where the journey ends. He is not legal to even possess a handgun in New York state ... the FOPA does NOT apply.Secret Agent Man said:That, and he was not arrested during a stay-over in NY.
He was apprehended at an airport in the act of traveling.
FOPA applies here.
A fundamental prerequisite of the FOPA is that possession (or "carry") of the firearm must be legal in the place where the journey begins and the place where the journey ends.
What SAM is trying to say is that he may be able to prove that he did not "posses" it in NYC. Of course they might show constructive possession.