Talk in the chat room and get busted?

[Mannlicher]

Those that are inept enough to discuss their innermost thoughts in chat room with strangers deserve to get busted. Even if they are 'Patriots' at heart, if they are that lax with comm security, they are not needed.
On the other hand, internat chat, using coded messages is an almost foolproof way to converse. Just don't do it in a firearms or 2nd amendment forum.

 

[mvpel]

At the risk of sounding like I am defending those idiot muslim extremists, let me try to put it in perspective. Many of the people attacking us over there are not ideologically driven. They are hungry, poor, and desperate. The people manipulating them are ideologically driven, however.... many of these people truly believe they are fighting to save their country, as screwed up as that is.

Say, I've got a really nice orange bridge out in San Francisco that you might be interested in purchasing at a bargain price.

Suicide terrorists often are labeled crazed cowards bent on senseless destruction who thrive in the midst of poverty and ignorance. The obvious course becomes to hunt down terrorists while simultaneously transforming their supporting cultural and economic environment from despair to hope. What research there is, however, indicates that suicide terrorists have no appreciable psychopathology and are at least as educated and economically well off as their surrounding populations.

As Sun Tzu said, if you do not know your enemy and do not know yourself, you will see defeat in every battle.

 

[pickpocket]

Say, I've got a really nice orange bridge out in San Francisco that you might be interested in purchasing at a bargain price.

Unless you've seen it first hand, your cynicism is unfounded. I worked with these people for two years - and anyone who's been there knows that the majority are under-educated, poor, hungry, and willing to do whatever they need to do to make it by. If it means blowing up Americans, well then that's what it is. Doesn't make it right, it's just what it is.

Doesn't make it any different, it's just the reality. Those guys are the worker bees...in the end, there's an endless supply of them - and there will be until the country has economic stability and the infrastructure to support it; not to mention a viable internal security force. Until then, the popular support will rest with whoever can convince them that they're still being oppressed. Right now they're being convinced by the people with a REAL terrorist agenda.
The people blowing us up in Iraq are tactical - we want the operational and strategic personnel.

As Sun Tzu said, if you do not know your enemy and do not know yourself, you will see defeat in every battle.

Indeed. Maybe you should get started on that.

 

[contender6030]

Unless you've seen it first hand, your cynicism is unfounded. I worked with these people for two years - and anyone who's been there knows that the majority are under-educated, poor, hungry, and willing to do whatever they need to do to make it by. If it means blowing up Americans, well then that's what it is. Doesn't make it right, it's just what it is.

Exactly how does blowing up Americans help these "under-educated, poor, hungry," people get by?? Does someone pay them for doing it??

 

[pickpocket]

I'm assuming by the eye-rolling icon that you dont' think that happens.

I can tell you that we found several instances where sheiks had basically "paid" people in both food and money to cause us big problems.
Also - it's not just being "paid" that allows people to "get by".. sometimes it's just not getting killed for helping the Americans. The mayor of one of the cities that we worked with to get utilities back up and running after the invasion ended up beheaded and the rest of his small family killed. That was the last civil servant to work with us for almost 9 months.
There was an Iraqi Police Officer who worked closely with us in one town - he was told that if he continued to work with the American Marines that he would be killed as a traitor. He stayed - one week later he and his whole family ended up dead as well... him, his wife, his 15-ish something daughter, his two sons approx 5 & 10 yrs.
Another young boy (14 years old) we captured said that mujahadeen had told him they would kill his family if he didn't watch our patrols and report back to them with intel.
Take your pick - there are plenty examples of these types of events and more - most people who have actually spent time on the ground will agree.

I'm not going to sit here and debate with people who have neither the time nor the inclination to listen to reason or someone with experience. This subject tends to get peoples' feathers all ruffled and all of the sudden everyone is an expert at everything - including foreign policy and middle-eastern culture.

My post stands, but I'm not going to sit here and defend it more than once. If you wish to continue believing that all of the "terrorists" are organized, educated, and connected as part of some huge underground network of conspirists, then fine; nothing I say will convince you otherwise.

However - I've fought with these people. I know differently. Doesn't make it any less dangerous or any less lethal - but it does shed some light on the situation over there. Accept it as a valid point or don't - it doesn't really affect anything except your individual view on things. All I'm saying is that it's not as cut and dry as we would all like it to be.

 

[Mike40-11]

Supposing 2 guys were in a cafe and were discussing blowing up the Hoover dam. They had no money, no experience with explosives, no capability to actually do it.
Yes, we might expect to see them get arrested, but what about made to disappear? No chance to face the charges, no legal representation?

Yes, that would be a chilling indicator. What's your point? We're not talking about the FBI listening to casual conversations in bars here and disappearing citizens. Intelligence agencies were monitoring known web sites where militants like to hang out and talk big. But some of the folks there attracted more attention to themselves, at least one because he was know to have contacts with Al Qaeda. "The FBI uncovered the alleged plot last summer and intercepted e-mails and chat-room postings on Web sites used to recruit Islamic terrorists.....Assem Hammoud. The 31-year-old man, who the FBI said was the group's leader, was arrested in Beirut on April 27 and has confessed, officials said....Hammoud was arrested before leaving for four months of training in Pakistan..."http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/07/07/AR2006070700361.html?nav=rss_nation/special

As far as the American citizens arrested in Miami go, they will be face the charges and have legal representation. "Each of the men faces four counts: two counts of conspiracy to provide material support to a foreign terrorist organization, and one count each of conspiracy to destroy buildings by explosives and sedition against the U.S. government. The counts carry maximum sentences of between 15 and 20 years." http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13720969/

Nice straw man though.

 

[Mike40-11]

More today:

Hammoud was recruited to al-Qaeda in 2003 by a Syrian who later took him twice to Lebanon's largest Palestinian refugee camp, Ain al-Hilweh, for weapons training, Rifi said. He said the Syrian, who has not been arrested, told Hammoud to use the Internet, where last year FBI agents monitoring Web sites and chat rooms uncovered the plot.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/07/10/AR2006071001223.html

Sounds like a little more than just an overheard conversation that got him arrested.

 

[azurefly]

My understanding is that (at least in the US ) there must be some sort of action before they can charge someone for talk. In other words talk only (excepting specific threats such as on the presidents life) no arrest talk and buy something, go somewhere, make something get busted.

We should not forget that "conspiracy" is just "talk," and that is what they get people on as well.

If you go to a gun show and start asking about converting a semi-auto to full-auto and asking people about how to do it, or where to get the parts, can't they bust you for that? Likewise I would think that you could get busted if that kind of "talk" were engaged in on a chat room.

I guess it depends on the content of the "talk."

I would not make a blanket statement that "as long as it's just talk, and not plans, you can't get in trouble." I have no confidence that it is so.

-Jeffrey

 

[Wildalaska]

Sorry you are wrong, you cant get busted for just "talk"..

Conspiracy: More than one person plan or agree to commit a crime and one of the conspirators commits an overt act in furtherance of the conspiracy
\
WildthatsthebasicsAlaska

 

[Wildalaska]

Obviously the rebels of the American Revolution weren't terrorists,

Go back in time and tell that to the Tories

WildhangemAlaska

 

[azurefly]

Well, what if a person went into a chat room and explicitly stated that he was planning on committing some terrorist act and that he had made arrangements to construct or obtain weapons and then said, "All right, who's with me?"

That couldn't bring some law down on him?

 

[Wildalaska]

Investigation but no charges

WildintheoryAlaska

 

[Harley Quinn]

Capper in CA.

We had something that occured in CA when a couple of out of work nubskulls decided to talk about and look for weapons that would blow up the largest propane storage in CA.

Talked to a person at a gun show and the plot thickened.

Eventually they did like WildAlaska mentioned :
Conspiracy: More than one person plan or agree to commit a crime and one of the conspirators commits an overt act in furtherance of the conspiracy.

Been in jail a long time and will be for quite sometime.

As to the original post:
I am sure there are many times people have talked and made some stupid statements about activity that could be considered illegal. Proving it in court is another matter.
So before it ever gets there many things have to fall into the right order in able to have a good case.
Many times it is through informants that it happens.

Sounds like they were set up, to take a fall when instructed to talk out in the open and took up the time of some agents while other crimes were taking place of much more value.

Or maybe they are innocent and the government just wants to show they are busy with saving our internnet from being used for criminal reasons

HQ