Tale of two guns

Status
Not open for further replies.
S

senecahornet

New member
Kimber made 1911 Raptor II and Springfield made 1911 Trophy Match
Blew up my Kimber with a double charge on my Dillon Press. Sent it back to Kimber for evaluation......broken beyond repair....so they said. So it sat in a box for months. Bought the Springfield on Gun Broker website....used.....gun made in 10/2000.
Finally brought the Kimber to a Gunsmith (Joe Seeley) with Kimber's letter saying what was damaged from the double charge.
The Kimber was not damaged and could have been fired without concern. (the only visible damage was a crack wood grip and a damaged mag where most of the discharged force went. Seeley reviewed all that Kimber said was wrong and had found it ....not true!
Now my Springfield and me shoot well......the Kimber I sell.
Do not get me wrong, the Kimber is a well made gun. But the PEOPLE that run the show at Kimber are full of it.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
J

JohnKSa

Administrator
I hope that, when you sell the Kimber, you notify the buyer of the situation.

I know that if I were buying a used gun that had been examined by the manufacturer and been pronounced damaged beyond repair, I would want to know it even if someone else had looked it over and given it the all clear.

If I were you, I'd also pursue the situation with Kimber. It would be one thing for them to state that they wouldn't touch the gun because of liability issues. It's quite another thing for them to provide an incorrect list of problems with the gun.
 
T

tipoc

New member
Both Master Blaster and John raise valid concerns.

The manual for the gun says that the warranty is void if poor handloads are used. I looked at the online manual from Kimber to be certain of that.

Kimber Mfg., Inc. assumes no responsibility for
product malfunction or for physical injury or
property damage resulting in whole or in part
from: failure to follow the instructions in this
manual; the firearm is disassembled beyond the
instructions in this manual; criminal or negligent
use of the product; improper or careless handling;
unauthorized modifications; use of defective,
improper or hand-loaded, reloaded, remanufactured
ammunition or ammunition of a different caliber
than the firearm is chambered for; customer
misuse, abuse, neglect or improper maintenance
of the product or other influences beyond Kimber
Mfg., Inc.’s control.
Click to expand...

So in this case not much could be expected of Kimber.

I'm a bit surprised that you did not take it home and field strip it and closely examine it after the blast. This would of let you know that there was no visible damage to the gun beyond the cracked grip (if what your gunsmith said was correct). A closer exam, like measuring the chamber to make sure it was not bulged,the frame flat, etc. could have told you more.

According to what you said the gunsmith said the gun is good to go. So have you test fired it with factory ammo?

Before selling it I'd make sure it was safe to fire and in working shape. Ethically you are required to tell the story of the gun to a potential buyer. This may lower the selling price.

tipoc
 
T

tipoc

New member
EVERYONE list disclaimers. The stand up companies want to avoid press like this and step up.
Click to expand...

Well yeah. In this case there was an overloaded round and a ka-boom.

Was the gun "damaged beyond repair" as Kimber said or not that's a question. Is it good to go as the gunsmith said or not? It's either one or the other or somewhere in between.

I'm curious as to what Kimber said was damaged. It's not so easy to damage a 1911 "beyond repair". A bent frame maybe. It's the original modular gun.

At any rate I agree with others that the OP should let Kimber know what the gunsmith said and go from there.

Now once the op told Kimber that he had a ka-boom with a double charge of powder in a hand load, Kimber was within it's rights to say "We won't work on it," and send it back. If they were righteous they would have looked it over and said plainly what they thought was wrong with it and offered to fix it for a charge.

If it's good to shoot why sell it? Unless you're angry at Kimber.

tipoc
 
T

TunnelRat

New member
Even if the OP is angry at Kimber, selling this doesn’t get back at Kimber. They already got the money when the pistol went to the distributor.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
U

unclenunzie

New member
"The manual for the gun says that the warranty is void if poor handloads are used. I looked at the online manual from Kimber to be certain of that."

I don't think you're reading that quite right -

The Kimber warning does not qualify "handloads" as "poor handloads" that will void the warranty. It says, among other things, that "handloads" (of any kind) void the warranty. In fairness to them, I don't know any maker that doesn't void the warranty this way.
 
S

stephen426

New member
No offense, but if you had the kaboom in the Springfield and they refused to warranty it, would you be upset with Springfield? I don't know exactly what Kimber did with the gun when they got it back, but an over-loaded round leading to a kaboom may have cause stress fractures that may not be readily noticeable. What did you gun smith do other than look it over? It might still function, but if you have another double charged round, maybe a lot more than the grip will blow up next time. Maybe that is the reason they don't want to say it is okay to use.
 
D

dogtown tom

New member
luger fan EVERYONE list disclaimers. The stand up companies want to avoid press like this and step up.
Click to expand...
Nonsense.
People who blow up their guns and ignored the manufacturers explicit warning deserve what they get.

Frankly, I would respect Kimber MORE if they said hell no we aren't going to fix it or replace it because you ignored our warning.

"avoid press like this" ?
It ain't press, but closer to social media blackmail and needs to stop.
 
L

luger fan

New member
Guess it depends on who you are used to dealing with. 20+ years ago I bought a CZ75. It had feeding issues. I sent it to CZ and explained the issue and gave them a credit card number. They repaired it, sent it back and gave me 2 free mags AT NO CHARGE!!!!

I pocket carry a 9mm Rohrbaugh, the smallest 9mm EVER made. I lost a grip screw and contacted the FORMER OWNER Eric Rohrbaugh as to where I would find one. He sent me a few NO CHARGE even though he NO LONGER WAS ASSOCIATED WITH THE COMPANY.

That friends isn't doing "whats right." Its doing the "right thing." There is a difference.:):):)
 
A

ammo.crafter

New member
Colt 10mm blow up

I had a Colt 1911 stainless “blow up” due to a triple loaded 10mm round.
The grips blew off, the mag ejected violently, and the slide locked shut with a pierce of the brass case sticking out of the ejection port.
This was not handloaded ammo, but ammo made by a manufacturer for a large gun club. The rounds were found to have been manufactured incorrectly and were returned to the manufacturer to be destroyed.
Apparently, the manufacturer resold the ammo to a large LGS who in turn sold several boxes to me.
Colt CS requested the pistol be sent to them for testing and review. Same was sent with the proviso that Colt accept responsibility as the firearm would not be available for exhibit inclusion if litigation was necessary. They did so and sent me a new 1911 (caliber of my choice and finish), the LGS gave me 1,000 rounds of ammo. The ammo manufacturer did nothing and was sued.
 
T

tipoc

New member
A number of these stories of good deeds by a gun company are interesting but also have nothing to do with this instance.

In this case the op put a double load in a round and when he fired it in the Kimber it damaged the gun. He and not a commercial manufacturer did the reloading and he stepped up and told Kimber that. This technically voided the warranty. He sent the gun in to Kimber and Kimber returned it to him saying it was damaged beyond repair.

Was it damaged beyond repair? We don't know. Was Kimber just saying that to avoid any liability if the gun blew up in the future? Maybe. Again we don't really know. If Kimber did the latter, well that's low down and dishonest.

Months later the op took it to a gunsmith and the smith said the gun was in good shape. Could be the case, again we don't really know.

The op is being honest and I'm not questioning that. There is a big difference between "damaged beyond repair" and in good shape though. So if I was interested in this gun I'd want to give it a good going over before i laid out any cash.

I also wonder if the op fired it after the gunsmith gave it the thumbs up.

tipoc
 
D

dgludwig

New member
Kimber probably just said beyond repair and didn't touch it because of LIABILITY nothing more and nothing less.
Click to expand...

Yep-and now any question of liability is shifted to the hapless gunsmith's shoulders.
 
1

10wt308

New member
Maybe you should be mad at Dillon or the loader that did not monitor the loading process
If nothing wrong with gun I would keep it and shoot the hell out of it. It stood up to a proof load.
If you sell it and do not tell the buyer he could be mad at you. Bad karma!
When you reload YOU assume responsibility for the results.
Learn a valuable lesson and move on

Edit just curious. How do you know it was double charge?
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top