I'll make it simple to understand. If they come here illegally, and have or are protesting in OUR streets for "gimme more", I don't much care what happens to them. I too fail to see how a steady stream of undereducated, low skill labor benefits this country. If you use that logic Central and South America should be superpowers. I also take offense when you misrepresent what I posted. I never said people cant follow their customs and traditions, I said people did'nt used to come hear expecting Americans to change our customs for them. Asv to your point about asimilation, I dont think your folks accent has anything to do with asimilating. Sounds to me like they are just normal folks who followed the rules, worked hard, and found the American dream. Do they refuse to speak english? I bet not. Did they allow you to dick off school as a kid? Bet not. Did they maybe rewrite our national anthem and alter the words when you were growing up? I doubt it. All I'm saying is that the folks headin north by the bushel basketful aint your normal immigrants. ERIC
Take Back America!
- Thread starter Libertarian
- Start date
Stephan, all I can say is, "Only in America!"
No other country in the world allows lawful (or unlawful) aliens to dictate what language they speak, let alone what language to use on government forms. I could go on, but you already get the point.
As for business subsidizing anything... Hogwash! No business ever pays any taxes or other subsidized fees. Period. This is all calculated into the price of whatever commodity the business sales. It is the end user that always pays for this stuff. Taxing any business is a waste of time and governmental resources... Just looks good to the average citizen who has never thought it through.
No other country in the world allows lawful (or unlawful) aliens to dictate what language they speak, let alone what language to use on government forms. I could go on, but you already get the point.
As for business subsidizing anything... Hogwash! No business ever pays any taxes or other subsidized fees. Period. This is all calculated into the price of whatever commodity the business sales. It is the end user that always pays for this stuff. Taxing any business is a waste of time and governmental resources... Just looks good to the average citizen who has never thought it through.
MeekAndMild
New member
I find it helpful to post a link to Albert Sherlong's 1963 observations concerning the stated goals of the US communist party.
http://209.157.64.201/focus/f-news/1529020/posts
These items are most pertinent to this discussion:
4. Permit free trade between all nations regardless of Communist affiliation and regardless of whether or not items could be used for war.
11. Promote the U.N. as the only hope for mankind. If its charter is rewritten, demand that it be set up as a one-world government with its own independent armed forces.
16. Use technical decisions of the courts to weaken basic American institutions by claiming their activities violate civil rights.
42. Create the impression that violence and insurrection are legitimate aspects of the American tradition; that students and special-interest groups should rise up and use ["]united force["] to solve economic, political or social problems.
http://209.157.64.201/focus/f-news/1529020/posts
These items are most pertinent to this discussion:
4. Permit free trade between all nations regardless of Communist affiliation and regardless of whether or not items could be used for war.
11. Promote the U.N. as the only hope for mankind. If its charter is rewritten, demand that it be set up as a one-world government with its own independent armed forces.
16. Use technical decisions of the courts to weaken basic American institutions by claiming their activities violate civil rights.
42. Create the impression that violence and insurrection are legitimate aspects of the American tradition; that students and special-interest groups should rise up and use ["]united force["] to solve economic, political or social problems.
dfaugh, are you sure that you want to reccomend oversold webhosting?
Bandwidth costs money. Space costs money. I've always asked (and so have others in the hosting biz) where these servers come from that somehow can provide 'unlimited' space and pipe for a few bucks per month. Never do get a straight answer on that.
Bandwidth costs money. Space costs money. I've always asked (and so have others in the hosting biz) where these servers come from that somehow can provide 'unlimited' space and pipe for a few bucks per month. Never do get a straight answer on that.
MidnightRambler
New member
I was talking to a Native American today who suggested all of us who aren't NA's are illegal immigrants. He said it was fine with him if all of the illegals were sent home.
He has a point, IMO.
I would add I'm largely Libertarian. My first question about all of the walls, border stuff was, who is going to provide all of these billions of dollars it will take to implement this?
He has a point, IMO.
I would add I'm largely Libertarian. My first question about all of the walls, border stuff was, who is going to provide all of these billions of dollars it will take to implement this?
smiling cobra
New member
war is war
we need to realize that through political correctness and niceity....Mexico is winning its war against us..any time another country takes over your soverignty...depletes you of your resources...and saps you of your assets through a concious and planned strategy...it is called war. We must get into a mindset to stop this....what do the illegial criminal aliens have to offer.???? Hi-Tech...No...Educated and progressive thinking...No....Mexico wants us to become another extension of their loser third world system. Stop being soft and have some spine(not what I want to really say)...If we can spend umpteen millions and millions of dollars in Iraq...Afghanistan...Korea...we can surely build a fence and man it with the National Guard...thats why the call it National Guard...to guard our nation. Who has any real statistics that says we cannot really deport all illegal criminals???...we just take that as some rhetoric "fact" spouted by our politicos...really solve the problem just as dispassionately as you would a diseased rat...and save our country. Semper Fi...COBRA
we need to realize that through political correctness and niceity....Mexico is winning its war against us..any time another country takes over your soverignty...depletes you of your resources...and saps you of your assets through a concious and planned strategy...it is called war. We must get into a mindset to stop this....what do the illegial criminal aliens have to offer.???? Hi-Tech...No...Educated and progressive thinking...No....Mexico wants us to become another extension of their loser third world system. Stop being soft and have some spine(not what I want to really say)...If we can spend umpteen millions and millions of dollars in Iraq...Afghanistan...Korea...we can surely build a fence and man it with the National Guard...thats why the call it National Guard...to guard our nation. Who has any real statistics that says we cannot really deport all illegal criminals???...we just take that as some rhetoric "fact" spouted by our politicos...really solve the problem just as dispassionately as you would a diseased rat...and save our country. Semper Fi...COBRA
MidnightRambler
New member
Why don't we dig a ditch all along the border, use the dirt from the ditch to raise the levees in New Orleans, then fill the ditch with water and bring all the troublesome alligators from Florida in and place them in the moat? That would solve 3 problems at the same time.
Benonymous
New member
From nothing..
"America was built up from nothing" by who? Slaves! Ask any Southerner when business started to go bad. That dadblasted Abe Lincoln! Illegals are just the new form of slavery for the 21st century. How can you max out profits when you have to pay a living wage and shell out for benefits? Simple! DON'T! Get some illegals in.
Imagine this. I own BigFat Corp and I want a new headquarters. I get the construction company in, they sub-contract to other smaller companies and hey presto! The new HQ is up and running. How much did I pay? Maybe the going rate. How much did the subcontractors get from the main contractor to pay their illegal immigrant labor? Less than the going rate, that's how they got the job. Put in a low bid on the tender. This is just one area of commerce wher having illegals in the chain maximises profits. There would be scads of other examples. Low wages equal better profits for the few and lousy conditions for the rest.
"America was built up from nothing" by who? Slaves! Ask any Southerner when business started to go bad. That dadblasted Abe Lincoln! Illegals are just the new form of slavery for the 21st century. How can you max out profits when you have to pay a living wage and shell out for benefits? Simple! DON'T! Get some illegals in.
Imagine this. I own BigFat Corp and I want a new headquarters. I get the construction company in, they sub-contract to other smaller companies and hey presto! The new HQ is up and running. How much did I pay? Maybe the going rate. How much did the subcontractors get from the main contractor to pay their illegal immigrant labor? Less than the going rate, that's how they got the job. Put in a low bid on the tender. This is just one area of commerce wher having illegals in the chain maximises profits. There would be scads of other examples. Low wages equal better profits for the few and lousy conditions for the rest.
MidnightRambler
New member
Ok. Here's a serious reply then. The idea that the Mexicans are destroying our culture is pure bull.
Americans were given permission to settle Texas by Mexico provided they became Mexican citizens. Mexico had outlawed slavery, and decided to outlaw it in the Texas territory, so Texas strived for independence so they could keep slaves. When Texas got independence, Mexico decided to recognize them as an independent nation. That wasn't good enough for the US. The US wanted Texas as a slave state, so they made overtures to Texas to join the US. When Mexico protested, the US declared war, then used the war to steal Wyoming, Utah, parts of Colorado, California, New Mexico and Arizona from Mexico. So the idea they are destroying our culture is so laughable it's embarassing.
Not to mention the US guaranteed in the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo, Mexican citizens in the now US territories would be granted full rights as US citizens, and never honored it at the time.
Is that realistic enough?
Americans were given permission to settle Texas by Mexico provided they became Mexican citizens. Mexico had outlawed slavery, and decided to outlaw it in the Texas territory, so Texas strived for independence so they could keep slaves. When Texas got independence, Mexico decided to recognize them as an independent nation. That wasn't good enough for the US. The US wanted Texas as a slave state, so they made overtures to Texas to join the US. When Mexico protested, the US declared war, then used the war to steal Wyoming, Utah, parts of Colorado, California, New Mexico and Arizona from Mexico. So the idea they are destroying our culture is so laughable it's embarassing.
Not to mention the US guaranteed in the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo, Mexican citizens in the now US territories would be granted full rights as US citizens, and never honored it at the time.
Is that realistic enough?
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MeekAndMild
New member
That is a subset of the "Tragedy of the Commons", and the only way to stop it is to enforce laws against the hiring, with jail time and heavy fines. Well not the only way, but the only legal way.
Interesting historical observation and conjecture: History ignores the tens of thousands of slaves possessed by yankees because they were mostly owned in ones and twos, a maid here and a blacksmith there. The fact that a tenth of a percent of southerners owned plantations (btw the biggest plantation owner on the Florida/Alabama gulf coast was black) made it a southern problem and the post hoc reason for the civil war because we saw huge masses of former plantation slaves clustered together.
So taking the psychological lesson of the facts of US black slavery history versus the myth, putting a few dozen chicken plant owners in jail will probally do a lot more to end the illegal immigration problem than jailing a hundred thousand rich women who each hire an illegal maid or gardener. With each plant closure we'd see a thousand migrants shipped back to Mexico so we could say we were accomplishing something. On the other hand jailing the rich women would be fair but would be burdensome on the rest of us, unless we could bid on their work release labor.
My big stumbling block aside from the illegal status itself, is the lack of desire to assimilate as our parents and grand-parents did. This "press 1 for English" nonsense has got to stop If I ever decided to emigrate to another country, I would learn the language they speak, and not expect others to comform to my desires. Why is this so difficult to understand by so many? Why is there any question as to whether English should be our "official" language? And to have a Senate leader call this a racist idea is truly beyond the pale...
If I ever decided to emigrate to another country, I would learn the language they speak, and not expect others to comform to my desires. Why is this so difficult to understand by so many? Why is there any question as to whether English should be our "official" language? And to have a Senate leader call this a racist idea is truly beyond the pale...stephen426
New member
stevekolt said:
steve,
When it comes to business, you meet the customers on their terms. If you want to blow off a large number of potential clientel, try your english only strategy. I live in Miami and at least 70% of the population here speaks spanish. I meet my customers on their level. Spanish is a second official language here. This decision was made based upon the percentage of spanish speakers that are here... and HERE LEGALLY.
While I don't believe that government officials should be hired because they are bi-lingual, that fact of the matter is that many are hired just based on the population distribution.
If you want to blame society's ills on a certain group, there are plenty of groups to lay the blame on. Look back upon what happened after hurricane Katrina. There was plenty of looking, rape, and murder going on afterwards. What about the cities where the Katrina refugees were evacuated to? I'm sure they saw a spike in their crime rates. What percentage of those people are illegal? What percentage of those people were on welfare? Those people do have rights however, and they cost tax payers plenty of money. If the estimates are tight about the number of illegals in the US, 11 million is just a drop in the bucket. Sure, there may be a greater concentration closer to the border but overall, they make up less than .25% of the entier population.
I'm not saying that all illegal workers are good hard working people. I just want to clarify that not all of them are criminals.
MeekAndMild said:
Now here is a guy that makes sense. If there are no jobs available because enforcement is so strict, then the motivating factor for crossing the border is eliminated. I am also for securing the border, but not shooting people like animals. There has to be a better way, and that way is allow illegal workers a way to work legally, and then return to their countries.
I didn't blame society's ills on any particular group...recheck my post.
If they are here illegally, they are by definition criminals as they have broken the law to get here.
Where did this come from?!?!
All I said in my post, is that if someone wants to immigrate, they should also assimilate. As I would if I ever chose to live in another country.And no more sendig our money to mexico, no more SS, free health care, and they start paying taxes!
If you cant understand english GO HOME or LEARN IT!
To those who think they're so self glorified, liberal human rights police than dig deep into your own pockets and pay for it!
If you cant understand english GO HOME or LEARN IT!
To those who think they're so self glorified, liberal human rights police than dig deep into your own pockets and pay for it!
stephen426
New member
stevekolt,
I was addressing some of the items mentioned from other posts. As for illegals being criminals, I failed to clarify that I meant robbers, burglers, rapists, murderers, and that sort of thing.
I was addressing some of the items mentioned from other posts. As for illegals being criminals, I failed to clarify that I meant robbers, burglers, rapists, murderers, and that sort of thing.