OldMarksman
Staff
This is not really an appropriate place for sarcasm that does not provide some value to the discussion at hand.
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Switching from Semi-Auto to S&W 642
- Thread starter wmg1299
- Start date
The 3 yards, 3 rounds and 3 seconds number DOES have statistics to back it up, hence the focus on close range shooting. I'll search for the exact most recent stats (I have them at the office, I'm home today), and post later, but the numbers are based on LEO deaths... and the majority are head shots at VERY close range. Also, I read most are South of the Mason Dixon line and occur during PM hours. That being said, I agree with others who posted practicing at 25 yards, which will make 3 yards much easier if the Devil ever decides to visit you in the flesh. Many agency's are focusing more on up close fast draw / point shooting and weapon retention tactics given these sobering numbers and the outright hostility LEO's encounter today from various groups. I'm counting down my last 5 years to my pension. 642? I love mine... very accurate, more than I can do it justice.
The 642 is my favorite carry gun. I can pocket carry and draw from the pocket. I have a Ruger LC9 and I'm a little more accurate with the LC but even tho I can carry it in a pocket the shape prevents drawing it. Rear of the slide hangs in pocket. I can do pretty well at 15 yards with the 642, I can keep them on the IDPA cardboard at 25 but I really scatter them. Neither gun is a 25 yard gun for me.
Snubbies
A friend had me smooth the tip of the trigger of his 642 bc it was gouging his finger. I then took it to the range to try it out. Snappy little booger, but at bad breath distances it is a dandy little package.
Two of my snubbies are sighted with CT lasers zeroed at 50'.
If you want to shoot tin cans all day, invest in a good shock glove to save your shooting hand from the damaging recoil.
A friend had me smooth the tip of the trigger of his 642 bc it was gouging his finger. I then took it to the range to try it out. Snappy little booger, but at bad breath distances it is a dandy little package.
Two of my snubbies are sighted with CT lasers zeroed at 50'.
If you want to shoot tin cans all day, invest in a good shock glove to save your shooting hand from the damaging recoil.
WheelGunMan
New member
I shoot my lightweight snubs as accurately as any of my other semi's. But with the snubs and DA only, I use very different trigger techniques and hold.
For the longer double action pull get a deep hook on the trigger instead of the finger pad press. This will give more strength on the pull. For accuracy, learn how to stage the trigger.
This means feeling when the cylinder locksup right before the trigger break. So you are taking up half the pull before the final break. Sometimes the final break will have a clean wall, others might be more a rolling break. Just pull through the break and concentrate on a steady hold accepting your amount of wobble. The worst thing that you can do with a DA only revolver is to jerk the trigger. Yes you can do a smooth pull through trigger break as well, but that is more like a condensed surprise shot.
Get a very high hold on the gun. With some of the hump back and LCR's you can get much higher hold than semi's. With no hammer to worry about hammer bite, you can use the thumb over the back technique to help with recoil on the super light guns. A rubber grips that covers the backstrap will help with heavier loads.
I carried a J frame 36 for 20 years as an off duty gun before we transitioned to Glocks. The qual course was modified to a max distance of 15 yards vs. the 25 for a service revolver. Sights and trigger pull work against practical accuracy. Practice and patience can offset that. Staging the trigger is great for range accuracy. I would caution against that approach (apologies to High Valley Ranch) for self defense use. The break point between staged and discharged can be razor thin. At typical SD range, a smooth pull with the first finger joint on the trigger always worked for me. Snap caps and practice will get you where you want to be.
Sage advice! How does the saying go? "Under stress, you will most likely react as you have trained."
There's a great story I read somewhere about a LEO who was highly trained in the use of his service revolver. Found himself in gunfight one day where his opponent had him out gunned with the use of a long arm. Using available cover and his expert marksmanship he prevailed and won the fight. When his fellow officers arrived they noticed a bulge in his front pocket. When they asked him about it he was unaware of what it was. Upon emptying the contents of the pocket he discovered all of his empty shell casings that he had subconsciously inserted there during the battle. When he trained at the range he would put his empty casings in his pocket so he wouldn't have to bend and pick them up afterwards. His subconscious state had taken over his gun handling duties for him. Pretty amazing.
I just read that over this past winter and am taking it to heart, because I wear a front dump pouch when I attend the defensive shoots at the local range. I keep my loaded speedloaders and deposit my empties in there (for the same reasons) because we are required to pick up our casings immediately after we shoot at each station. I think I can probably stand the exercise.
Glenn E. Meyer
New member
If you are talking about the Newhall incident as one where brass was pocketed, that seems to be a myth:
http://blog.krtraining.com/book-review-newhall-shooting/
There may be others out there but not so well researched.
Here's a nice analysis of snubbie usage and practice by Claude Werner:
https://tacticalprofessor.wordpress.com/2018/04/11/comparing-capabilities/
I took his snubbie class as I think if I carry a gun, I'd better come up to speed on it. If one can't take a class, Claude has quite a few good practice drills for such guns.
http://blog.krtraining.com/book-review-newhall-shooting/
There may be others out there but not so well researched.
Here's a nice analysis of snubbie usage and practice by Claude Werner:
https://tacticalprofessor.wordpress.com/2018/04/11/comparing-capabilities/
I took his snubbie class as I think if I carry a gun, I'd better come up to speed on it. If one can't take a class, Claude has quite a few good practice drills for such guns.
HighValleyRanch
New member
I like the gun and plan to keep practicing. I'm not looking to make modifications to the gun, but was curious to know how long it took other new small-frame revolver shooters to develop accuracy at 15-25 yards.
Staging the trigger is great for range accuracy.
EXACTLY. If you are shooting out to twenty five yards with an LCR, staging the trigger might be necessary for an accurate shot. Not everything is trained for up close SD training. I was merely suggesting that the OP might want to learn some trigger control to improve his snubbie experience.
WheelGunMan
New member
If you are talking about the Newhall incident as one where brass was pocketed, that seems to be a myth:
Actually NO...it was an excerpt from article out of this months Shooting Illustrated called "Savvy Snubby Practice" by Chris Christian recounting a story from Border Patrol officer Bill Jordan.
The message I took away wasn't the story, embellished or not, but the training instincts that took over at the moment of the encounter. (As it turns out the lone officers assailant was over 100 yards away and armed with a .30-30 Win rifle while he only had his .38 Spl. service revolver) The take away is that right in the middle of a gunfight, this officer took the time to transfer his empty cases to his pocket. Because, that is exactly the way he trained during his range practice. Every habit he acquired in training, good or bad, became instinct when his training was called upon in a high stress situation.
I guess the point I was trying to point out is, and I quote..."Under stress, you will most likely react as you have trained."
I think it's telling us we should be mindful of our training exercises as bad habits are easy too make and hard to break.
Glenn E. Meyer
New member
I read that one also. I wonder how well the story was vetted. With no offense to the writers, I've heard gun trainers sometimes embellish to make a point. One told a story as if it happened to him. I then read it in a gun rag article from another author who it happened to.
So who knows?
So who knows?
WheelGunMan
New member
I read that one also. I wonder how well the story was vetted. With no offense to the writers, I've heard gun trainers sometimes embellish to make a point. One told a story as if it happened to him. I then read it in a gun rag article from another author who it happened to.
So who knows?
Great story just the same. . .makes one review his or hers training regimen!