Suspicious panhandler in the parking lot
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Jammer Six
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Actually, I tell them "no."
Works every time.
Every time I do it, anyway. There is one guy here that I went to junior high and high school with, in the late sixties-early seventies. Him, I give money to. I'm sort of dreading the day I don't see him. We come from the same place. There is also a program here in Seattle called "Real Change", and I help them out, too.
So you pays your nickel and you takes your chances.
To re-cap: what works for me may or may not work for you, and what works for men may or may not work for women.
Works every time.
Every time I do it, anyway. There is one guy here that I went to junior high and high school with, in the late sixties-early seventies. Him, I give money to. I'm sort of dreading the day I don't see him. We come from the same place. There is also a program here in Seattle called "Real Change", and I help them out, too.
So you pays your nickel and you takes your chances.
To re-cap: what works for me may or may not work for you, and what works for men may or may not work for women.
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Was pregnancy a serious threat?
All joking aside, I'd tell him no thanks same as she did and if he kept on then out comes the stern "I'm on an episode of COPS" voice. Further pestering I'd probably have to put my big boy pants on and un clip my knife from my pocket and have it in my hand ready to deploy (Kershaw speed safe).
If the guy didn't get the effing memo at that point I'm not sure what I would do. At that point I would hope to be nearly halfway across the parking lot and far enough away for him to no longer be a threat. If the guy was following me, which at that point he would have to be for this to still be an issue, I might step to him and get in his face. I don't know. I seldom am not with my wife and 18 mo old son so if had to step to him to keep him at a distance I was comfortable with from them then as much as it would suck its what I would do. I'd have to draw the line somewhere and seeing how he has now followed me what I am envisioning to be nearly 100 feet that would be it for me. He's not following my wife and child any further.
Once they are at the door he can follow me to it if he'd like. Keep in mind I'd have my knife in my hand nearly this whole time.
Evan Thomas
New member
Dakota, give or take the "sorry," I think your girlfriend handled it just fine. Yes, pepper spray would have been nice, but in a situation like that, pepper spray -- or any other weapon -- is a backup. Plan A should always be to avoid or get away from the situation if at all possible. (That goes for anyone, male, female, or other.)
She told him no, and when he persisted, she got herself out of the situation as fast as she could while being aware of what he was doing. Then she made sure she had an escort when she went back to her car.
The police officers should NOT have given her a hard time -- that was way out of line, and very unprofessional.
She did well -- take her out for a nice dinner, and don't discuss it over the meal unless she brings it up.
She told him no, and when he persisted, she got herself out of the situation as fast as she could while being aware of what he was doing. Then she made sure she had an escort when she went back to her car.
The police officers should NOT have given her a hard time -- that was way out of line, and very unprofessional.
She did well -- take her out for a nice dinner, and don't discuss it over the meal unless she brings it up.
Firstly there are weird people everywhere. Not all of them are dangerous.
There are normal people everywhere. Not all of them are to be trusted.
That is the tricky part when it comes to judgement.
I would say composure and presentation is about as effective as any weapon. If you shrink away or your voice betrays your worry, if this person means harm it proves his or her feelings as you as a mark were correct. This composure applies to both sexes. If you come across as confident, cool, and seemingly in control you seem much less appealing.
While I understand your concern for your girlfriend I feel that you are worrying to much. (just an opinion) Women are quite capable of acting under pressure and taking care of themselves, they are not the helpless creatures some (not saying you) assume they are. She's smart. She handled it. I assume she is under 18 by your posts. If when she becomes an adult she expresses interest in learning and owning a weapon of some sort she can take the steps necessary.
All in all these things can and do happen. While not to be casually dismissed I wouldn't dwell on them to terribly either unless it becomes the same person again and again. This has happened to me and my gf.
There are normal people everywhere. Not all of them are to be trusted.
That is the tricky part when it comes to judgement.
I would say composure and presentation is about as effective as any weapon. If you shrink away or your voice betrays your worry, if this person means harm it proves his or her feelings as you as a mark were correct. This composure applies to both sexes. If you come across as confident, cool, and seemingly in control you seem much less appealing.
While I understand your concern for your girlfriend I feel that you are worrying to much. (just an opinion) Women are quite capable of acting under pressure and taking care of themselves, they are not the helpless creatures some (not saying you) assume they are. She's smart. She handled it. I assume she is under 18 by your posts. If when she becomes an adult she expresses interest in learning and owning a weapon of some sort she can take the steps necessary.
All in all these things can and do happen. While not to be casually dismissed I wouldn't dwell on them to terribly either unless it becomes the same person again and again. This has happened to me and my gf.
dakota.potts
New member
Thank you for your opinions.
It's funny someone mentioned age, she is the one who is 18 and I am still a baby and will not be 18 until August. I do worry and that seems to be my way with everything. She is very smart and I don't give her enough credit but as a young, pretty woman out on her own with a lack of life experience and the tendency to think "bad things won't happen right here in my neighborhood" it concerns me. It would have been nice if she had pepper spray or a bowie knife or machete or firearm to back it up but she handled it and that wasn't necessary.
I was curious how other people would've reacted. I imagined from some posters here that the response would have been "Drawn my gun, shouted at him to get on the ground, and handcuffed him while I waited for the cops" (I kid) but I wasn't sure what people would actually say. I lack life experience myself and I'm sure that over the years I'll experience things like this enough to know how to handle it just like my parents and their parents before them.
It's funny someone mentioned age, she is the one who is 18 and I am still a baby and will not be 18 until August. I do worry and that seems to be my way with everything. She is very smart and I don't give her enough credit but as a young, pretty woman out on her own with a lack of life experience and the tendency to think "bad things won't happen right here in my neighborhood" it concerns me. It would have been nice if she had pepper spray or a bowie knife or machete or firearm to back it up but she handled it and that wasn't necessary.
I was curious how other people would've reacted. I imagined from some posters here that the response would have been "Drawn my gun, shouted at him to get on the ground, and handcuffed him while I waited for the cops" (I kid
) but I wasn't sure what people would actually say. I lack life experience myself and I'm sure that over the years I'll experience things like this enough to know how to handle it just like my parents and their parents before them.I think your Girlfriend got lucky. I believe that she was in real danger. I think she did the best thing possible. Get to where there are people inside the store.
Lets look at the situation... Here is a young woman alone going shopping. Ok so she is alone, and no one to assist her, She's young and probably have some money, She's going shopping so she probably has some money. Panhandling in Florida is nothing new. So I'm just a pan handler looking for some money... I've got these neat looking palm things to grab folks attention, What? she says no?... no problem I've got to get just a little closer... "MISS I'm NOT GOING TO HURT YOU!" "I just need a little money to get by" I rush at her but she makes iy to the store... Dammit! Here comes that bi### again.. oh man she got a cop with her...I'm outa here.
Anytime a panhandler wont take no for an answer, he/she will probably push the issue to another level. Anytime a panhandler persue you... WARNING WILL ROBINSON WARNING! If a panhandler suggests that he wont hurt you?... In my humble opinion... he's threatening you... Why even bring that up if you dont want the thought in the victims head?
As a former police officer I find the officers reaction to be.... unacceptable. Obviously these officers have forgotten who they work for.
Lets look at the situation... Here is a young woman alone going shopping. Ok so she is alone, and no one to assist her, She's young and probably have some money, She's going shopping so she probably has some money. Panhandling in Florida is nothing new. So I'm just a pan handler looking for some money... I've got these neat looking palm things to grab folks attention, What? she says no?... no problem I've got to get just a little closer... "MISS I'm NOT GOING TO HURT YOU!" "I just need a little money to get by" I rush at her but she makes iy to the store... Dammit! Here comes that bi### again.. oh man she got a cop with her...I'm outa here.
Anytime a panhandler wont take no for an answer, he/she will probably push the issue to another level. Anytime a panhandler persue you... WARNING WILL ROBINSON WARNING! If a panhandler suggests that he wont hurt you?... In my humble opinion... he's threatening you... Why even bring that up if you dont want the thought in the victims head?
As a former police officer I find the officers reaction to be.... unacceptable. Obviously these officers have forgotten who they work for.
Jammer Six
New member
Nobody here can tell you how they would have reacted. Nobody here was there.
I personally would have probably bought one of his creations. I wish more of the homeless people around here made crafts to sell instead of just asking for money. But, I generally give them money anyway - at least when I have change or small bills.
If enough things go wrong any one of us could wind up there, and I like to think if it's ever me, my fellow man will help out.
The overwhelming majority of panhandlers are harmless - often a bit weird, but harmless none the less.
That being said, I think she handled the situation well.
Carrying pepper spray is a good idea in general, but she clearly didn't need it here.
Carrying a knife is a TERRIBLE idea. Fighting effectively with a knife takes a tremendous amount of training (more than fighting effectively with a gun), and requires that you're within grappling range of your adversary. Pulling a knife is more likely to escalate a situation than defuse it, and she doesn't want to be in a knife fight. Google images of people who've "won" a knife fight.
If enough things go wrong any one of us could wind up there, and I like to think if it's ever me, my fellow man will help out.
The overwhelming majority of panhandlers are harmless - often a bit weird, but harmless none the less.
That being said, I think she handled the situation well.
Carrying pepper spray is a good idea in general, but she clearly didn't need it here.
Carrying a knife is a TERRIBLE idea. Fighting effectively with a knife takes a tremendous amount of training (more than fighting effectively with a gun), and requires that you're within grappling range of your adversary. Pulling a knife is more likely to escalate a situation than defuse it, and she doesn't want to be in a knife fight. Google images of people who've "won" a knife fight.
This is a situation on how so many respond. "I dont carry pepper spray, not a firearm, not anything really. If bad things come my way I'll just find someone else to help bail me out. Surely there's a policeman standing within 10 feet of me at all times."
Simple reality is you're dead wrong. Yes get help if its available but many times its not. Many times if its you that needs help people are so quick to help only theirselves and not help who ever is in trouble. Everyone who is able needs to find ways and practice to be able to defend themselves WHEN trouble comes their way. Situation Awareness should be first to be aware but you need to carry and train with OC spray, have a gun on you conceiled and know how to use it , be proficient and be willing to do what is necessary to use it for yourself and others who are in need. If you choose not to then just stand there and take whatever comes your way and file a report to the police station after its over with -if you can.
Simple reality is you're dead wrong. Yes get help if its available but many times its not. Many times if its you that needs help people are so quick to help only theirselves and not help who ever is in trouble. Everyone who is able needs to find ways and practice to be able to defend themselves WHEN trouble comes their way. Situation Awareness should be first to be aware but you need to carry and train with OC spray, have a gun on you conceiled and know how to use it , be proficient and be willing to do what is necessary to use it for yourself and others who are in need. If you choose not to then just stand there and take whatever comes your way and file a report to the police station after its over with -if you can.
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A Few Ideas
First my Fiance carries a firearm and OC spray on a daily basis. She is ready to defend herself and has trained as much as many men. Se was not always that way however. Women are not naturally as aggressive as men. She went through an incident while alone at her parents house that changed her and she luckily was uninjured however inspired to train and learn. As to your specified scenario I will say the following.
1. Loud Firm NO! And a LEAVE ME ALONE! Will go a long way.
2. Do not take your eyes off of him period.
3. Have your hands on your method of defense (in this case OC would be better as a first line)
4. Get inside the store or into the crowd and report the incident to LE asap. (sounds to me like she shopped and only informed LE when she saw them on the way out)
Regards, Vermonter
First my Fiance carries a firearm and OC spray on a daily basis. She is ready to defend herself and has trained as much as many men. Se was not always that way however. Women are not naturally as aggressive as men. She went through an incident while alone at her parents house that changed her and she luckily was uninjured however inspired to train and learn. As to your specified scenario I will say the following.
1. Loud Firm NO! And a LEAVE ME ALONE! Will go a long way.
2. Do not take your eyes off of him period.
3. Have your hands on your method of defense (in this case OC would be better as a first line)
4. Get inside the store or into the crowd and report the incident to LE asap. (sounds to me like she shopped and only informed LE when she saw them on the way out)
Regards, Vermonter
Glenn E. Meyer
New member
I don't know the training situation in FL - but getting training for such is well worthwhile. Quite a few outfits - Insights, FAS, Southnarc, KRtraining - offer comprehensive curriculum for such. Way beyond - the can I shoot'em stuff.
How to interact, defuse, escape, etc. before we get into knifing and shooting and spraying. Then how to do that.
Going through scenarios gives you a mental paradigm that enables you not to freeze up.
If you and her are truly interested - that's the best thing to do. As reported it went well but serious student of the art cannot avoid the scenario training.
How to interact, defuse, escape, etc. before we get into knifing and shooting and spraying. Then how to do that.
Going through scenarios gives you a mental paradigm that enables you not to freeze up.
If you and her are truly interested - that's the best thing to do. As reported it went well but serious student of the art cannot avoid the scenario training.
orionengnr
New member
Next time, get the badge number of that "public servant". Write a letter to the Chief, cc in the Mayor and maybe the local newspaper.
They work for us. When they forget it, it is time for a reminder. A rather forceful and public reminder usually lasts a bit longer.
Something similar happened to me at a local grocery store. As I was approaching the entrance, from the right, a man, about 6 feet away, turned and walked into my path. "Hey buddy, you got any change I can have for some smokes?" I told him no I didnt, and he stepped right in front of me and said "Aw come on man, I know you got some money". I quickly reached into my front pants pocket, and grabbed the grip of my P32. He saw this reaction, turned immediately on his heels and quickly got out of sight. He possibly was more of a criminal than the OPs subject. I dont know. He certainly was focused on my action, and reaction. I never drew the P32, but later thought to myself that reaching for my pistol was the perfect response.
Everyone needs to practice situational awareness. You dont have to be paranoid, but just glance the surroundings, keep your eyes moving, and know whats going on around you. I think the woman in the original post did the correct thing, given the circumstances, and the fact that she was unarmed. I think if I was her, and was frightened by this episode, it would be time to think about some type of protection, either a firearm and appropriate training, or a chemical spray.
Everyone needs to practice situational awareness. You dont have to be paranoid, but just glance the surroundings, keep your eyes moving, and know whats going on around you. I think the woman in the original post did the correct thing, given the circumstances, and the fact that she was unarmed. I think if I was her, and was frightened by this episode, it would be time to think about some type of protection, either a firearm and appropriate training, or a chemical spray.
dakota.potts said:
Okay, let's understand this. A nice lady is pointed to two police officers who are there after having made an arrest. They're probably making sure that they have all the information that they need, names, addresses, dates of birth, witness statements, inventories of goods, everything that they need to successfully make the case.
I've been there, done that. It normally takes 30-45 minutes to make the case after you've made the arrest. If a cop has his notepad out, or if he's talking to witnesses, or if he's inspecting merchandise on a shoplifting case, he's busy doing the job he was sent to do.
We get it. Lots of time our job doesn't look like we're doing much, but in many cases, it's all important. Little things that make cases work. We've got to get it all down.
orionengnr said:
We sure do, all cops are public servants. However, that doesn't mean that we're available immediately to everybody, especially when we're already on a call. Would you go into a mechanic's bay and demand that he drop what he's doing to look at your problem? Would you walk into a teacher's classroom and demand that she stop what she's doing to help you with a concept? No, you wouldn't, but people walk up to police officers all the time and demand immediate service.
Sometimes the answer is, "I'm busy.", but no one wants to hear that. Granted, the cop could have been a little more diplomatic, and I'd have probably asked if he could wait five minutes until I've finished talking with someone else.
I've even had people, not satisfied with the answer I gave them, whip out a cell phone and call 911. Really? Is that the best you can do when you get an answer you don't like? Yeah, I work for you, but right now I'm helping this fellow. You're next! Just wait your turn.
Mr.James said:
He was there doing his job. He was making an arrest, after having been dispatched to the location. She was safe, her life and limb were in no immediate danger, and the officer was busy on a call that his supervisors had sent him on. He was, in fact, doing his job.
It amazes me that normally rational people, having never been behind the badge, seem to know how to do a police officer's job. And they'll tell us how to do our job at every golden opportunity. I've got over 30 years behind the badge, highly trained, extra education (a Master's Degree), and I love being a police officer. I still like helping people. Even folks who think they know my job.
Evan Thomas
New member
It was fine that the officers didn't drop everything to help her, but mocking her is unacceptable. That's the unprofessional behavior in this case.
I agree that the one officer's response was a little less than professional.
Consider this -
"Officer, would you walk me to my car? I think there's a weirdo guy in the parking lot"
vs
"Officer, there's a strange guy in the parking lot talking about hurting people"
If I was in the parking lot and saw/heard what's being described here, happing to someone ELSE, I'd be calling the gendarmeres. The "I'm not going to hurt you" line, repeated twice, is a little too creepy for me.
Sgt Lumpy
Consider this -
"Officer, would you walk me to my car? I think there's a weirdo guy in the parking lot"
vs
"Officer, there's a strange guy in the parking lot talking about hurting people"
If I was in the parking lot and saw/heard what's being described here, happing to someone ELSE, I'd be calling the gendarmeres. The "I'm not going to hurt you" line, repeated twice, is a little too creepy for me.
Sgt Lumpy
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