Stress relieving and factory Rem 700 barrel

[ripnbst]

I see people on here talk about light barrel and heavy barrel shouldn't shoot that differently when they heat up. That any good stress relieved barrel will shoot well with the thin barrel just heating more rapidly.

I am familiar with some metal products manufacturing processes but stress relieving isn't one of them. Would a factory Rem 700 sporter barrel be "properly stress relieved"? I really want an accurate hunting rifle, I have the factory plastic ADL stock on it currently which flimsy is an understatement.

I am looking at converting it to a BDL to open up aftermarket stock options and going with a B&C, possibly the M40. Prior to ordering the stock I want to decide on if I want to keep the factory barrel or not so I can order an appropriate barrel channel in the stock. If I was to replace the barrel it would likely be with a Palma contour. The exact one I'm not sure of at the moment.

The gun makes nice 3 shot groups but 5 shots not so much. My guess is by the 4th and 5th shots the barrel is too warm.

So the question I am looking for help with is:
Would a Remington OEM sporter weight .308 barrel be properly stress relieved?

 

[jmr40]

You'll come out a lot cheaper selling and buying a BDL if that is what you want rather than trying to convert. If you want a different stock just buy an ADL stock. B&C doesn't make an ADL stock, but the money you save by not converting to BDL would pay for a much better McMIllan, and they will make an ADL stock.

A factory barrel that will do that is impossible to predict. Maybe, maybe not. You are more likely to get the results you want with an aftermarket barrel.

 

[ThomasT]

Unless you have a lemon remingtons are known for being good shooters. I have a matt finished ADL in .243 with the flimsy stock also. I just found a near perfect factory wood stock and bedded my action to it. With loads it likes it will break the 1" mark on a regular basis.

The wood stock cost me $90. It did make the rifle 8oz heavier than with the plastic stock. Not a deal breaker at all.

 

[ripnbst]

You'll come out a lot cheaper selling and buying a BDL if that is what you want rather than trying to convert. If you want a different stock just buy an ADL stock. B&C doesn't make an ADL stock, but the money you save by not converting to BDL would pay for a much better McMIllan, and they will make an ADL stock.

A factory barrel that will do that is impossible to predict. Maybe, maybe not. You are more likely to get the results you want with an aftermarket barrel.

The BDL is not what I really want, but my stock upgrade options suck if I stick with the ADL.

I saw that McMillan made stocks for ADL and I got excited but it was just that much further for me to fall when I saw the prices. Those Mcmillans are pricey pricey pricey

Maybe I just have to sack up and go for a McMillan it will just take longer to save the money to do it.

My question still remains, what do people mean when they say properly stress relieved when talking about rifle barrels and are OEM Remington sporter barrels produced that way?

 

[bigwrench]

Stress relieving

Stress relieving is part of the manufacturing process of various steel components to relieve stresses in metal caused during the forging process. It involves heating a finished component to a certain temperature, depending on alloy, and then allowing it to slowly cool so the molecules of that component stay the same temperature throughout. Most stressing of a component will be caused by tempering where quenching is involved.

 

[ripnbst]

Bigwrench, thank you for your explanation. That makes perfect sense to me.

So as a barrel manufacturer this would sound like a batch process for them because it is time consuming. In order for it to be economical, they would have to process large batches in large ovens to make the time worth it. Batch processing is really not a good thing though and should be avoided wherever possible. I'd wager a Coke that production barrels aren't stress relieved. Does anyone have any reason to believe otherwise?

 

[old roper]

Might want to read this on rifle barrels

http://www.rifleshootermag.com/2010/09/23/gunsmithing_rsgunsmith1/

 

[geetarman]

^^^^^^^ old roper. . . .VERY interesting read on barrels. Thanks!!

 

[ripnbst]

Interesting read Roper. Thanks for posting.

 

[Bart B.]

The link Old Roper put in is a good read. It's only got one error:

Fluting a barrel definitely lightens it, stiffens it...

Yes, it's lighter; metal's been removed.

No, it's not stiffer; metal's been removed that used to resist bending. Now it's less stiff.

Shame on the article's author for putting that decades-old myth in print!!!

 

[tobnpr]

What's your definition of "really accurate"?

Since you've already decided on customization, consider the following:

Buy a Savage action- new, or a used rifle for a "donor" action. Barrel and stock condition don't matter, and deals can be found at pawn shops- $250-$300

Several manufacturers of quality aftermarket spin-on barrels. Take your pick, $200-$400. B&C or other aftermarket stock. Not quite the same selection as the 700, but still plenty to pick from.

Rifle Basix trigger.

I say this not to disparage the 700 (I own and like them), but buying a rifle only to tear it apart doesn't make sense to me in your application. Buying a 700 and then replacing the barrel is an expensive proposition unless you're a DIY amateur smith. Savage is the way to go if you want an aftermarket match barrel, without a full-blown smith build (Actually, you can do it with a "Remage" barrel, but that's another story).

 

[chewie146]

I think perhaps, comparing apples to apples, a fluted barrel is better. You can give up some weight without losing as much stiffness. Some shapes are stronger than others.

 

[Paul B.]

"I saw that McMillan made stocks for ADL and I got excited but it was just that much further for me to fall when I saw the prices. Those Mcmillans are pricey pricey pricey."

Yes they are but I think they're worth it. I have them on four rifles at this point in time including a fairly expensive custom 30-06. All I can say is no complaints.
Paul B.

 

[Bart B.]

ripnbst asks if a Remington OEM sporter weight .308 barrel would be properly stress relieved.

I think so. Their hammer-forged barrels are pretty good. But that's not the whole issue of barrels of different weights (and lengths too) shooting to different points when they heat up. What also's needed is the barrel press against the receiver equally all the way around its tenon shoulder where it contacts the recoil lug's ring around it.

The receiver face needs to be squared up with the barrel thread axis. And the recoil lug has to be the same thickness all the way around it that fits between the receiver and barrel. Otherwise, one point will have harder contact than all the other places around it. When the metals heat up, a stress line will start at that point causing the barrel to bend a tiny bit. It takes only .007" bending movement of the bore axis at the muzzle relative to the breech end of a 24" barrel to change point of impact 1 MOA.

David Tubb sells custom recoil lugs for Remingtons with both front and back surfaces ground parallel to each other. After facing off the receiver, these are a good thing to have between the barrel and receiver. A 'smith could probably grind their surfaces parallel, too.

 

[reynolds357]

Remington factory barrels are hit or miss. If you want a match grade barrel, you are going to have to buy an aftermarket match grade barrel, or you are going to have to get a Remington out of the Custom shop.

 

[Jerry45]

My sporter barreled Reminghon 700 30-06 is in a B & C M40 (heavy barrel) stock. It looks and functions just fine. You can put your skinny barrel in the M40 and if you decide to put a heavy barrel on your action you'll be good to go. My 308 with a Sendero (heavy) barrel alos resides in an M40. Both rifles shoot sub MOA. The skinny barrel has no problem shooting 10 shot srings within 6 or 7 minutes.. it does get pretty warm though.

 

[Bart B.]

As far as I know, all of Remington's own barrels are hammer forged.

Remington's Tactical XM3 rifles in .308 Win. are claimed to produce "sub-MOA strikes out to 1000 yards" with its 18.5 inch Hart barrel with a 1:10 twist. I don't know of any commercially available ammo that would shoot bullets fast enough to stay supersonic from that short of a barrel all the way to 1000 yards. Nor do they state the conditons for that accuracy level.

Their 40-XS tactical rifle in .308 has a 24 inch 1:12 twist factory barrel said to be "Capable of 0.50 inch maximum 3-shot groups at 100 yards." Sounds to me like if more shots are fired, the barrel bends from heat expansion and shot impact starts to wander away from the point of aim.

Remington's Hunter series from their custom shop are marketed with "Expect sub-MOA groups" but don't specificy the conditions for them.

 

[old roper]

Bart B. Have you read this from Kreiger barrels on fluting.

Q: How does fluting a barrel help?

A: Fluting reduces weight while increasing rigidity over an unfluted barrel of the same weight, ie: smaller contour. By exposing more exterior surface area, it also aids in cooling your barrel. On the barrel contours that we will flute, we expect the same practical accuracy out of a fluted barrel vs. an un-fluted barrel as long as it is fluted by us. A note on fluting done by others: We have researched and performed fluting using many different methods over the years and have really perfected the system we use. Like any other outside operations performed on our barrels, we will not be responsible for the results of other methods of fluting performed by gunsmiths/machinists other than Krieger Barrels, Inc.

This is from Lilja on fluting

http://www.riflebarrels.com/products/barrel_length_fluting.htm


I know Shilen has his reason for not liking fluting.

 

[Bart B.]

Yes, I've read that and even talked with John Kreiger about fluting. The operative words in that quote are when barrels of the same weight with one fluted and the other not, the fluted one will be stiffer. The fluted one has some metal further from the bore than the solid one; that's what makes it stiffer.

For barrels of the same length and profile diameters, fluting one makes it less stiff than the other without flutes; the fluted one has less metal in it to resist bending. That's simple, grade school physics that should not be hard to understand.

I know some folks have air gauged finished barrels before and after fluting and both button and hammer forged rifled ones' groove diameters changed at both ends of the flute as well as under the flutes. Smaller with hammer forged barrels, larger with button rifled ones. Cut rifled barrels changed the least and often not at all, which is why they're the best ones to flute after they're finished.

http://www.snipercountry.com/articles/realbenefitsbarrelfluting.asp

 

[tobnpr]

ER Shaw holds the patent for helical (spiral) fluting. They allege it is superior to "straight" fluting. I think some smiths still do this as well on the sly...but Shaw has been aggressive about enforcing their patent, so those that do- don't advertise it.

The unique appearance of our Helical Fluting provides the discriminating shooter with a barrel that not only looks great but is up to thirty percent more rigid than a similar barrel with Straight Fluting. Helical fluting provides additional surface area for improved cooling, improved barrel harmonics, and helps to counter act rotational torque, giving the shooter greater shot consistency.

http://www.ershawbarrels.com/scb-fluted-barrels.php