You are correct, you can do everything right and still be charged/sued. The BG generally brings the best evidence from the very beginning with a criminal record. Like the saying goes, you roll your dice you take your chances. Nothing will dissuade me from taking care of me and mine.
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Starbucks Robbery... might sue
- Thread starter Deaf Smith
- Start date
You are correct, you can do everything right and still be charged/sued. The BG generally brings the best evidence from the very beginning with a criminal record. Like the saying goes, you roll your dice you take your chances. Nothing will dissuade me from taking care of me and mine.
zincwarrior
New member
But will you take care of others?
But will you take care of others?
I retired after over 3 decades of taking care of others. Everyone has had the same opportunity to learn and prepare. If I jump in to aid a stranger are they going to pay my legal/medical bills or take care of my family if I am killed?
It would have to be a crime that shocks the conscience.
zincwarrior
New member
Exactly.
Glenn E. Meyer
New member
That's a pretty standard finding in the pro-social literature. The more horrific, the more the likelihood of intervention.
Example: A man is fighting with his ex. People not that likely to intervene even if armed.
A man knocks down wife and pours gasoline on her to torch her, intervention becomes much more likely.
Example: A man is fighting with his ex. People not that likely to intervene even if armed.
A man knocks down wife and pours gasoline on her to torch her, intervention becomes much more likely.
Psychadelic Bang wrote:
I wonder if the Good Samaritan had something like the NRA self defense insurance, and I wonder if this would be covered.
The reason ... the Samaritan has interfered in a criminal act. He was not originally acting in self defense...
This is a good question.
It depends on how the policy was written. Like many "self defense" plans, the NRA plan has a reimbursement provision that will reimburse criminal defense costs once you are acquitted. This is because it is generally not legal to insure against criminal liability. To this, they then add a liability insurance policy to protect against civil liability. So to see what the Starbucks Good Samaritan might expect from an NRA policy look at what the liability portion covers:
https://mynrainsurance.com/getmedia...d79/Self-defense-Insurance-policy-forms-12-16.
Pay particular attention to Section 1.A which sets forth what they actually cover.
And the NRA policy only pays after your other insurance (like the general liability part of your homeowner's insurance) pays, so it might make more sense to get your civil liability insurance from that insurance company that is already underwriting part of the risk.
And once you've got your civil liability covered, you can be more selective in shopping for your "criminal defense reimbursement" plan.
Wow, so if a guy wears jeans/ leather your just SOL?Therein lies the problem.
In every knife use demonstration by Michael Janich that I have seen on television, Michael has gone to great length to show how to use the blade for slashing key tendons, to render the attacker immediately incapable of continuing the attack.
I do not recall ever seeing him demonstrate stabbing, and it is my recollection that he cautions against it.
One reason for that may well have to do with effecting an immediate stop.
Another may well have to do with the difficulty of determining how much damage would really be required, and therefore how much would be justifiable.
If you are Justified, the use force, if not then scamper away.
You can always counter sue, esp. If you are stabbed in the neck by an attacker. :/
This is what it has come to? Every man for himself?I retired after over 3 decades of taking care of others. Everyone has had the same opportunity to learn and prepare. If I jump in to aid a stranger are they going to pay my legal/medical bills or take care of my family if I am killed?
It would have to be a crime that shocks the conscience.
This is what it has come to? Every man for himself?
I look at it more along the lines of personal responsibility.
OldMarksman
Staff
Read this once or twice, and reflect upon it.Wow, so if a guy wears jeans/ leather your just SOL?
If you are Justified, the use force, if not then scamper away.
Good luck with that strategy.You can always counter sue, esp. If you are stabbed in the neck by an attacker. :/
Glenn E. Meyer
New member
Countersue? What assests or insurance does a Starbucks robber have?
Does the National Convenience Story Robbers Assocation (NCSRA) offer insurance?
Now we are into the good old good samaritan story? Are you an immoral coward if you don't jump into a critical incident? We've done that (and every gun discussion forum) has done this endlessly.
How many folks live a life of diminished personal pleasure or a life of poverty to give to the deserving poor? Not that many, you buy expensive toys. Immoral? But if you don't risk your life in a property crime, you are a bad person. It has become a bathetic discussion.
Does the National Convenience Story Robbers Assocation (NCSRA) offer insurance?
Now we are into the good old good samaritan story? Are you an immoral coward if you don't jump into a critical incident? We've done that (and every gun discussion forum) has done this endlessly.
How many folks live a life of diminished personal pleasure or a life of poverty to give to the deserving poor? Not that many, you buy expensive toys. Immoral? But if you don't risk your life in a property crime, you are a bad person. It has become a bathetic discussion.
Deaf Smith
New member
Just to let you folks know... so far no one is suing (as I said there wouldn't be!)
Chimenti chimed back one more time: “It’s not my lawsuit. I have no intentions of suing.”
http://www.fresnobee.com/news/local/article174903981.html
Plus my search of Fresno's filing of lawsuits shows no lawsuit filed by Ryan Flores or his 'moma'.
But then Fresno Police Chief Jerry Dyer called the idea of Jerri being sued "ludicrous." And legal analysts commenting on the case expressed doubt that the lawsuit would go anywhere, saying that "unreasonable malice" would be difficult to prove.
Finto.
Deaf
Chimenti chimed back one more time: “It’s not my lawsuit. I have no intentions of suing.”
http://www.fresnobee.com/news/local/article174903981.html
Plus my search of Fresno's filing of lawsuits shows no lawsuit filed by Ryan Flores or his 'moma'.
But then Fresno Police Chief Jerry Dyer called the idea of Jerri being sued "ludicrous." And legal analysts commenting on the case expressed doubt that the lawsuit would go anywhere, saying that "unreasonable malice" would be difficult to prove.
Finto.
Deaf
OldMarksman
Staff
Who the heck would go to the expense of suing that guy?Just to let you folks know... so far no one is suing (as I said there wouldn't be!)
Deaf Smith
New member
Who the heck would go to the expense of suing that guy?
Strange...this whole thread had tons of post, especially from you, ABOUT the possibility of him being sued by the jailbird or his mama!
Deaf
OldMarksman
Staff
Possibility, yes, of course.Strange...this whole thread had tons of post, especially from you, ABOUT the possibility of him being sued by the jailbird or his mama!
The man's actions, which were unwise from the standpoints of physical safety, criminal defense of justification, and exposure to civil liability.
He seems to have beaten the odds on the first of these, but the clock runs for two years on the other two.
The link to Mark MacYoung's article on this. posted previously in this thread, contains an extremely relevant real example.
Glenn E. Meyer
New member
In a police case: https://www.policeone.com/use-of-fo...pect-stabbing-cop-can-be-sued-video-released/
- we have a somewhat similar concept. The officer used quite a deal of force on an opponent who was seemingly out of the fight.
An interesting line:
- we have a somewhat similar concept. The officer used quite a deal of force on an opponent who was seemingly out of the fight.
An interesting line:
“But terminating a threat doesn’t necessarily mean terminating the suspect,” Kozinski said.
John J. McCarthy Jr
New member
Committing crimes should be a very dangerous way to make a living.
Read this once or twice, and reflect upon it.
Good luck with that strategy.
Ok. I actually read the whole thing.
1. I used to have one of Marc's books, I thought it good back then, but this new material seems wonky. Keeping in mind he has to keep food on the table, he seems to be going the Mossad Ayoob legal expert route, but with knives.
2. A lot depends on state law in self defense. The Stand your ground law in Florida would change this mental exercise for those in that juridiction.
3. article does not mention my question about Jeans or leather and slashing. Training, or only mentally preparing to preform one kind of strike in an SD situation is trianing to fail.
4. No one here would (or should want) to be in a knife fight/ duel. It would be very messy for both sides.
(Marc used to say be prepared to get cut up). sometimes just running away is not always possible, even if preffered by some.
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OldMarksman
Staff
In what way?The Stand your ground law in Florida would change this mental exercise for those in that juridiction.
In this way: (3) The court shall award reasonable attorney’s fees, court costs, compensation for loss of income, and all expenses incurred by the defendant in defense of any civil action brought by a plaintiff if the court finds that the defendant is immune from prosecution as provided in subsection (1).In what way?
http://http://www.slaw.ca/2012/03/29/floridas-stand-your-ground-law-the-text/
It used to be that you were immune from civil suits, but the FL supreme court Nixed that. SO now the state will cover your court costs, and lost income.
For arguments sake, lets say you lose in civil court... the homested/bankrupcy laws in Florida allow you keep your house, car, and up to 160 acres of primary residence farmland.
http://https://www.alperlaw.com/asset-protection/florida-asset-protection/homestead-exemption/